Lionel 1122 switch question

[trains2353]

In the Greenberg seventh edition of Repair & Operating Manual for Lionel Trains 1945-1969, is hows on page 627, the 1122 switch wiring diagram, that no insulating pins are used. On the 1122E, it shows insulating pins being used on page 633.

Which is correct?

[lionelsoni]

Both.  The 1122 used the middles of the outside rails as control rails, which, being entirely within the turnout's extents and not abutting any other track, needed no insulating pins.  The 1122E used the ends of the inside rails as control rails, which did abut other track and therefore needed insulating pins.

[TrainLarry]

The 1122 and 1122E model turnouts were manufactured and wired differently. Look closely at the schematics for both sets, and you will see the difference in internal construction.

Larry

[trains2353]

Thanks for the replies. I will look at the schematics closer.

[lionelsoni]

The two turnout types are electrically identical, and so would have had identical schematic diagrams.  But the wiring diagrams on their service manual pages do show their use of different rail segments as the control rails.

[trains2353]

So the 1122 needs no insulater pins, but the 1122E needs them on both the inboard rails. Am I correct?

[TrainLarry]

Because of the design difference, that is correct.

Larry

[BigAl 956]

Yep everyone is correct here. The first year production of the 1122 the non-derail rail break was incorporated into the switch. If you look carefully on a first year switch you can see it. These first run 'beta' switches are also identified by the light bulb being on a removable socket so it can be changed without removing the switch cover.

Subsequent production Lionel made some design changes to make the switch less expensive to manufactuer. The integrated rail breaks were eliminated and insulating pins were used instead. Another change was now you have to unscrew the cover to change out the bulb.

Later on MPC eliminated the bulb all together.

These switch versions are electrically identicall the changes are purly physical.

[trains2353]

Removed all the insulating pins from the 1122 switches; left the ones on the only 1122E I'm using. All works well including the anti-derailing feature. Thanks again for all the advice. I learned alot.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/24780526/413493391.jpg

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/24780526/413493390.jpg

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/24780526/413493389.jpg

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1001/4368153/24780526/413493388.jpg

Next; road bed and fasten track.

[lionelsoni]

One downside to the 1122E and later control-rail design is that two turnouts can be connected together, for example, in a crossover, with one turnout's insulating pin interrupting one outside rail and the other turnout's insulating pin interrupting the other outside rail.  The result is that there is no connection of the outside rails across the joint.

You shouldn't have any problem, since you have only one 1122E; but I mention this for those who have more than one.  This has turned out to be the cause of problems that have been reported on the forum in the past.  One fix is simply to add a wire between the turnouts' common terminals, to join the outside rails; another is to insert a short rail section between the turnouts, to make the connection through the crossties.

[BigAl 956]

Looking at your layout I couldn't help thinking, for would-be FasTrack layout builders out there, your layout would have probably cost $800-$1000 if built with FasTrack.

[trains2353]

I would have like to have done the little layout in Super O, but the wider radious curves would have created problems. Don't have enough room for the wide radius curves. Would have looked good though.