if you have a Flickr account, I have pictures in "Train Pictures and Stuff" ,
and also a group I just created called "Knott's "
Like the pictures of " small world " with colored lighting.
Thanks guys!
Here's 2 more I shot when it got completely dark:
Small World was a lot of fun to build. I had to accomodate 6 inch clearance without making the module too large to handle. That meant raising the background "kinetic sculpture" (as they call it) so it would still be seen with the train passing in front.
I really love these strings of 110 volt grain of wheat lamps that you find in crafts stores. They make lighting so easy!
I need better water.
Topiary the easy way: Step one, buy small plastic animals and Woodland Scenics fine turf. Step two, dip plastic animal in glue and then in fine turf. Step three, let dry then plant.
There's a perpetual line too.
By the way, these are some of the 1:50 scale figures out of China, Hong Kong, etc. that have been cropping up on online auctions in recent years.
This is well known of course, but here are some pics of the ride pavillion and the original kinetic sculpture "Tower of the Four Winds" at the 64 World's Fair.
When it came to Disneyland it changed sponsors from Pepsi to Bank of America.
The center part was easy enough to get photos of but the ends were a different story.
People don't often take photos of the backside of the clock tower either.
Nowadays the ride is sponsored by Sylvania.
I wanted the more colorful look of Small World Holiday:
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Becky, I'm serious here. You should take photos of your work to any architectural firms that might be in your area by way of a resume' and see if they can use a great modeler.
Your work is spectacular, to say the least!
That is looking great ! And, I just noticed your " It's a Small World" in the back. You have captured the details of the facade pretty accurately. That was always a fun ride, like a mini trip around the world. The train came through that facade also. This back side of Disneyland was one of the last open areas. It has built up now too, with Mickey's Toon Town, and a new station. "Small World" was another classic, and one of my mom's faves.
The first half of my "new and improved" Main Street USA is finally ready!
This would be the East side of the street.
Which of course backs up to Tomorrowland.
Which is also new and improved (with a large pile of 14 volt lamps).
And here's one of those little nooks that nobody will see:
Both Main Street and Tomorrowland have always been relatively dark.
Time's running short, so finishing West Main Street and it's Fantasyland back side will keep me busy!
I'm happy with the way Cedar Faire is running Knott's. They keep that train running all the time. In 1969, when yours truly was in 8th grade, we went on a school field trip to Knott's. This was to see the replica of Independence Hall. We had the rest of the afternoon free. I brought my camera, and was so looking forward to the steam train. No train that day. There were numerous other trips to Knott's, and it was about 50/50 that the train would be running. Since 2002, every single time I have not been disappointed! And the tickets have said " Cedar Faire" in small print. They've got my vote!
They used to paint those locos in outlandish, and colorful paint schemes. Now they have number 41 painted accurately in black, and lettered R.G.S. Number 340 is painted accurately for the Denver and Rio Grande Western, and in tri-color, no less!
They usually seem to have one running, and one being rebuilt. They alternate every year or so, it seems.
My "other" favorite amusement park train:
It runs around Memphis Kiddie Park which is at the other end of my street. Coincidentally right accross the road from where the NYC Linndale roundhouse used to be!
Cedar Fair has grown since the late 80's to include Cedar Point, Cedar Point Shores, California's Great America, Canada's Wonderland, Carowinds Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom, Kings Dominion, Kings Island, Knotts Berry Farm, Knotts Soak City, Michigan's Adventure, World's of Fun Oceans of Fun and their original "other park" Valley Fair (hence the Cedar Fair name). https://www.cedarfair.com/
Those Cedar Point locomotives are absolutely stunning! I'm drooling all over the keyboard even as we speak!
Thanks for the photos and the links Becky!
That's right - CedarFaire was the name on my kid's paystubs. There was a fair amount of back-and-forth between CP and Knotts in the off-season (for CP).
My daughter met the guy she married during her last summer working at CP!
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
I looked it up, and Cedar Fair is a parent company with many amusement parks, including Knott's, and Cedar Point. Those coasters at Cedar Point aren't joking around! Pretty extreme stuff ! I've slowed down considerably, and I'm more of a train ride type these days!
Wow! Lots of great info! I have a question though:
Is the company "Cedar Faire" in any way connected with the Cedar Park?The reason I ask is for the last 15 years the tickets at Knott's have Cedar Faire in small print.I think somewhere it said " a Cedar Faire company". I have noticed a difference: the steam train seems to be consistently running. In the '60's through the '80's, it was hit and miss. Back then, it seemed like half the time the train wasn't running for one reason or another. In these Cedar Faire days, they always seem to have one engine running, and one in the shop being refurbished.
Good news for train fans!
Here's another little crumb of info:
when Walter Knott purchased the trains from the Rio Grande Southern after they Had shut down, he also brought one of the RGS conductors to help him set up, and run the operation. They originally experimented with a figure 8 setup, but the curves were too tight. So, they settled on a giant loop. Also, for a short time I've heard they had "Mudhen" 464, but this engine was too big for the curvature. The rails came from the scrapped Telluride branch. And, they had a great model train store. I remember buying an engineer's cap, and a patch to sew on it. There was a 1" or 1 1/2" scale live steamer displayed.
And an " early days" memory:
in early Knott's, the streets of Ghost Town were not paved, just dirt. I remember one of the C-19 engines parked casually on a side track. My parents allowed me to climb up into the cab. I somehow came out with very greasy hands !
cnw1995 Two of my kids lived and worked summers at CP a few years ago. It was quite an experience, as Penny notes. They worked many, many hours; they lived in ancient dorms that looked like steerage on the Titanic; they met some local celebrities; they made $ and connected with other workers from all over the world (CP imports those interested in hospitality).
Two of my kids lived and worked summers at CP a few years ago. It was quite an experience, as Penny notes. They worked many, many hours; they lived in ancient dorms that looked like steerage on the Titanic; they met some local celebrities; they made $ and connected with other workers from all over the world (CP imports those interested in hospitality).
In my day (boy does that make me sound old! ) CP had the Demon Drop, The Mill Race, the Giant Wheel and A LOT more trees. I watched a recent video of a run on the CP&LE right of way and where it used to be a ride through bucolic forest, it now passes a busy road on one side and coaster after coaster on the other. That's progress I guess.
Jennie K:
was recently sold to Knotts. But reports now say that Knott's will be auctioning the loco. As to why, I have no clue.
Postwar PaulI remember that the Abominable Snowman inside the Matterhorn was an enhancement that was added later, not an original feature. They advertised on T.V. Don't recall the year, though.
Harold!
Yes, he didn't arrive until 1978. In 77 Disneyland decided it was time to upgrade the ride.
That's when the sleds went from singles to doubles thereby increasing capacity and shortening (ha ha) the lines.
They also enhanced the caves and grottoes:
Look ma! 2 tracks!
The view from the location of the Motor Boat Cruise after the removal of the Skyway:
Tinkerbell's lauching pad:
The 2012 refurbishment:
Well...I guess I now know how to shrink wrap a mountain!
Fantastic lighting!
Say hello to the NEW face of fear...
I've ridden a coaster or two as well. My daughter and I used to ride them at Knott's. When she was 6, and tall enough, we went on Ghostrider. That's a classic wooden coaster, and the track actually has steel straps laid on top of the wood for the wheels to roll on. I mention this because you can feel every bump and jolt, and it feels probably twice the speed, although it is really moving. We still have that picture, and the look of pure excitement on our faces. We rode many times.
One time on Ghostrider, you go up an enormous hill at the beginning, and after you crest, the first big drop. This is where they shoot your picture. Well, we crested the hill, and started barreling down, and something appeared in front of my face. Suspended weightless in front of me was an eyeglass case. I tried to grab it, but couldn't. It was just floating there! We hit the bottom of the hill, and all kinds of things started to happen, twisting, turning, sliding in the seats to one side. Then the other side.Finally, it was over, and my daughter and I were laughing, and talking about how much fun it was. I told her someone's glasses floated past me. We laughed. Then, I checked my from shirt pocket. " Hey, where's my glasses?".
We loved the coaster called" Silver Bullitt". This was new in '05, and we rode it 3 times that day. It seats 4 people across, and your feet are just dangling in the air. It twists, loop to loop, corkscrews, but it is such a smooth ride ! Unlike the wooden coasters, which rattle and bump along.
The other daring deed we did was "Excellerator". 0 to 80 mph, then straight up probably 100 feet,makes a U turn and heads straight down, turns again and floats in more gentle and spiraling pattern until it runs out of momentum. It was at this point the steam train passed below us!
As fun as that was, we never worked up the courage to ride that one again. We would walk toward the line, and chicken out at the last minute.
The train at Knott's is cool! Walter Knott bought 2 C-19's, a Gallopping Goose, some coaches, freight cars, and "Edna"( business car) in 1952 after the RGS shut down. If you like Colorado Narrow Gauge, it's worth checking it out.
Thanks for the picture of Chloe. We went to Orange Empire in '95, and they have a Ward Kimball barn. Saw Emma Nevada, and some Carson and Colorado coaches, but did not see Chloe that day.
Back to Disneyland.
I remember that the Abominable Snowman inside the Matterhorn was an enhancement that was added later, not an original feature. They advertised on T.V. Don't recall the year, though.
I was a coaster riding nut back in those days. I was there during the transition from CP being the "Amazement Park" (or abusement park as we called it) to "America's Roller Coast". I was able to ride the Magnum before the brakes were installed and the Mean Streak before all the bolts had been tightened!
We worked 80 hours a week with only one day off a week and management usually wanted us to work them too! You got minimum wage (about 5.35 at that time) and were hired basically as a "contractor". That meant if you got sick you were in breach of contract! It didn't matter if they sent you to their doctor and the doctor said you were sick or injured, you still got docked for it!
Not exactly a "Disney style" operation.
Here's the website where I found info on the C.P.&L.E.: http://www.cplerr.com/ If you go to this sub-page: http://www.cplerr.com/erWardkimball.html it gives a brief history of the engines traded between Disney and CP.
Here's Chloe from the Orange Empire Railway Museum http://www.oerm.org/3-foot-gauge-grizzly-flats/:
and Maud L:
CP&LE #1
9x14''
This is such an interesting thread. I am learning so much - I had no idea so many things had corporate sponsors. I was able to visit WDW pretty soon after it opened in 1971, and had a blast. I hope they keep steam. My kids worked at Cedar Point for a few summers and they kept saying CedarFair planned to phase them out. One thing I remember about Orlando in late 1971 was our jet passing slew of B-52s back when the airport was shared with the Air Force.
Wow !
Those are some fine steamers! 3 foot gauge, I take it?
The Ward Kimball is very similar in appearance to the Grizzly Flats Chloe that I have in G. The real Chloe was one of Ward's engines. I think it had originally been a Hawaiian sugar cane plantation engine. There's a sister engine " Olomana" that is on display in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. ( That place is superb, as a Pennsylvania nut) .
I would not be surprised if many of C.P.'S locomotives had originated in plantation service. The Railroad Press had a series of books, 1-4 on Hawaiian railroads. I have 3 out of 4. The plantation engines had that look to them. Heavy on the Baldwin, Porter, and Vulcan. Great looking engines!
By the way, when I worked at Cedar Point from 1988 to 1991 it was almost a daily ritual for me to ride around the park behind the real coal fired locos of the Cedar Point and Lake Erie Railroad.
I would get off work (in theory) at 8pm and during the midnight closing days I could have up to 3 hours to play in the park in the evenings. So, after changing clothes at the dorm, I would head back in to the park, eat some corn dogs and greasy french fries and go ride the trains and roller coasters. Most of the time I'd eat at the Iron Dragon Cafe and then ride the Iron Dragon coaster afterward. Then I'd head over and take the trip to the back of the park.
Here's the CP&LE yard and shop:
The red buildings beyond were the boy's dorms in the old 1914 built Cedars Hotel. The girl's dorms were in the center of the park very close to the Iron Dragon.
My favorite loco was Albert, a 1910 Davenport 2-6-0:
And then there was Maud L., a 1902 Baldwin 2-4-4T:
This loco was traded in 1999 and became Disneyland's "Ward Kimball":
And the CP&LE got this 1927 Davenport 2-4-4T which was running at Disney World as the "Ward Kimball":
It was too big for the Disneyland Railroad and was not up to the task of pulling the heavy WDW trains. But why the CP&LE Baldwin succeeded at Disneyland and the Davenport failed I'm not sure. But I did love watching little Maud run!
Other CP&LE beauties.
Judy K:
Myron H:
George R:
Roger Linn:
D. B. Harrington:
This one, the Ida P., only came to CP for restoration work:
And then there's this little one:
The Plymouth diesel made to look like a steam loco!
A great little railroad!
Postwar PaulTinkerbell
They've started doing that again:
You can see the wires and harness in this one:
But the tradition was begun in 1961 by Tiny Kline:
She was 72 when she started doing it!
From Wikipedia:
Tiny Kline (born Helen Deutsch,[1] June 21, 1891 - July 5, 1964)[2] was a Hungarian-born[3] circus performer. She performed for Barnum & Bailey and Disneyland.
In 1905, Kline immigrated to the United States with a dance troupe.[3] She lived at the Clara de Hirsch home for immigrant girls.[4] She started as a burlesque dancer, but moved on to perform in the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus as Tiny Duchée.[5] There, she met rodeo trick rider Otto Kreinbrink (stage name Otto Kline). Two years later, they married. When he died during a ride, she took over and learned acrobatic tricks, including the "aerial iron jaw act", where she would be suspended by the mouth on a long glide wire.
In 1961, Walt Disney began a search for a flying Tinker Bell to wow crowds at Disneyland. Kline was hired to glide down a wire connecting the Matterhorn to Sleeping Beauty's Castle.[3] She retired from playing Tinker Bell in 1964. Tiny was scheduled to return as Tinker Bell that same year, but she died from stomach cancer before coming out of retirement.[6] At the time of her death Tiny left the bulk of her estate to the Clara de Hirsch Home. Tiny Kline is buried in Inglewood Park Cemetery in Inglewood, Los Angeles, California.
Firelock76I've never been to Disneyland, but do they really call that mountain the Matterhorn?
Oh yeah! Here's the story in short from the website where I get all these photos from:
BACKSTORY (June 14, 1959—Present): Originally a dirt mound created from what was removed to make the moat around Sleeping Beauty Castle. First named Holiday Hill and then Lookout Mountain, Park Operations staff continually had to keep a look out due to its unofficial status as “Lover’s Lane.”
The Matterhorn was conceived by Disney during two trips he made to Switzerland: first in July 1953 and then five years later in July 1958 during filming of “Third Man on the Mountain.” Born out of the desire to hide the unsightly Skyway pylon, the Matterhorn was one of six new major attractions for Tomorrowland in 1959 (however, it has always been designated a Fantasyland attraction). Supposedly, Walt sent a postcard featuring the Matterhorn back to the states with the edict “Build this.” Walt was discouraged by (Admiral) Joe Fowler when he wanted to “make some snow and have a toboggan ride.” Difficulties in creating the snow and drainage were circumvented by using steel, wood, plaster, and paint. At 147' high, it is a 1/100th replica of its Swiss namesake and the tallest structure inside Disneyland.
It is recognized as the first tubular steel roller coaster in the world, and was built by coaster builder Arrow Dynamics and WED Imagineering. What was Walt’s response when he first saw the completed attraction? Legend has it that he said, “It’s 10' too short.”
Making glacial ice in a parking lot:
The concrete was spread from the top down to prevent drips from fouling the finished details:
The "horn":
The "real" Matterhorn doesn't have so many holes it it though :
The alp:
My alp:
It may not be as accurate as Disney's version, but mine is a lot easier to move around!
Yes, it is officially the Matterhorn, and the ride is "Matterhorn Bobsleds". It was an E ticket ride back in the day. There was a time also that one of the highlights of the evening would be Tinkerbell descending from the mountain ( probably on a zip line) under full spotlights. It was really magical for kids !
I've never been to Disneyland, but do they really call that mountain the Matterhorn?
I remember the Disney movie "Third Man On The Mountain" with James MacArthur, Janet Munro, and Michael Rennie and if memory serves the mountain (which sure looked like the Matterhorn) was called "The Citadel!"
I had to put emphasis on "The Citadel" because I never forgot the way the narrator pronounced it, sounded scary, dangerous, and doom-laden.
On the other hand, in that classic monster movie "The Crawling Eye" they use a shot of the Matterhorn but call it "The Trollenberg."
It's been decades since I've seen "TMOTM" but I remember it was a good movie!
Hey !
in talking to people, the rumor keeps surfacing that one track on the Matterhorn is indeed faster than the other, or at least the final drop is more severe. Maybe my brother was right.
This may require some field research to verify...
Well,that's cool ! What I remember about the canoe: it was an Indian that gave the instruction. And I remember how mad that kid behind me got ! Sorry, didn't mean to splash. Some rides nowadays are actually intended to get you soaked. I guess I'm ahead of my time !
Your models are great ! Now, I need a train project. All my Lionel is running perfectly at the moment. Guess I need to build something. I've really enjoyed this forum. Learned a lot about Disneyland, thank you. We may have covered just about everything.
Now, what to build ?
Yes that was the "enhanced mission" Space Mountain which also featured "Rockin' Space Mountain". You can see the speakers in the headrests:
There's also the "Ghost Galaxy Space Mountain" for Halloween:
And now, "Hyperspace Mountain"
I suppose the ride vehicles are X-Wings now.
The Indian War Canoes and later Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes:
Water's a bit close to the gunwales don't ya think?
They changed the dock to this design at some point:
Davy's versions came after the American Indian Village closed and became Bear Country (now Critter Country since the Jamboree is gone).
A couple of them are holding the oars the right way!
The first time I rode Space Mountain was about October '78. This was the same day we were serenaded by the Tramps ( " Disco Inferno"), at Tomorrowland Terrace. It was always a surprise who would be performing there, but it may have been posted on the Marquee at the entrance to the parking lot. Regardless, we had already planned to go this day, and we were lucky with the entertainment! My first impression of Space Mountain? We liked it, but didn't quite know what to make of it. It is dark, and you see an occasional light, like rocketing through Space, and seeing distant stars and planets. The last time on Space Mountain was 2005. My daughter and I rode, and we absolutely loved it ! I did hear there had been some revamping and refurbishing of the ride, and it was great! They had fitted speakers into the seat backs in the ride, and my daughter loved the soundtrack ! I don't recall that detail from '78, maybe an enhancement. So, the verdict is in : it's cool !
I always have memories of old Main Street. The horse cars, the double decker omnibus, and the old time cars. When I was a kid, these vehicles were plentiful on Main Street, and they were always blowing the horn ( which was literally that, a horn with a rubber bulb on one end). They were warning pedestrians with the horn, but there were so many vehicles! Up and down Main Street. And you could ride them, I think it was an A ticket. The horse cars were my favorite.
Some things I remember very clearly, other things not as well. If that is the boarding area for the canoe, I barely remember anything about boarding. Yet, I remember rowing the canoe.Why ?
Bakuzz:
they boarded us, and gave the quickest," down and dirty" instruction on paddling. I either was not taking notes, or too young to grasp the technique required. So, instead of rowing efficiently with the oar making nice clean strokes in the water, I was splashing and churning up a storm. Unfortunately, there was a kid sitting right behind me who
well, you get the picture...
Space Mountain is one of those rides that it's just become impossible to think of a Disney Park being without.
Walt Disney always wanted to do a "roller coaster type ride in the dark" and planning was well under way in his life-time. But they knew they couldn't do it during the 1966 remodel of Tomorrowland and decided to develop it for the Florida project first.
The WDW mountain is much bigger than the Disneyland version because it features 2 track operation. I also love the fact that since the mountain is outside the WDWRR right of way, you have to go through a long tunnel to get there. That keeps the lines hidden inside and you may not know how long the wait is until your deep within it!
Space Mountain opened at Disneyland in 1977 in the "expansion area" behind Main Street where International Street, Liberty Street and Edison Square had all been planned, announced but never built.
All three of those would have been great, but personally I'm glad they built Space Mountain instead! Here's the opening day line:
Oh yeah, it's an E-Ticket ride allright!
In 1998 Tomorrowland was revamped again and they painted the mountain copper, gold and green!
It looked better at night!
And while it no longer matches the rest of Tomorrowland, it went back to white in 2003.
And the rest of Tomorrowland followed suit!
So why the "grunge look"? At Euro Disneyland in Paris the steampunk look was a big hit. Believing that it would catch hold in the U.S., Disney patterned it's 1998 revamp after Euro Disney's "Discoveryland".
Thus turning the Anaheim incarnation into a bronze and brass "retro futurists" paradise.
By the way, did you know that Space Mountain is supposed to fly?
Postwar PaulBut, after 9 p.m., the lines would shorten
That's where the "extended stay" guest benefits over the "single day" ticket holder. We always planned which days to watch the parades and fireworks and which days to ride the E-Ticket attractions when most people were sitting on Main Street. Speaking of which, as far as I know all the vehicles are still there, but I'd guess that during peak times (opening and closing hours) they may be parked to allow for the heavy morning and evening pedestrian traffic. (These are older pics)
Walt loved to zip around the park in the fire engine in the early morning light.
There are a few that don't see active use.
And one that left the park:
The Carnation truck "In the late 1990's, the manager of the Carnation Farms located in Carnation, Washington and home of the founder of the Carnation Company was given the truck for the museum at the farm. The truck was restored and repainted and is now on display at the farm. It even occasionally motors around the farm at special events."
Disneyland had a much larger stable when the park opened so it's easy to see why there are fewer horse-drawn vehicles these days. But in 1955, there were a lot of horses around:
However equine transportation can be a tad unpredictable.
Them's the cowboys. Here's the "other guys":
Too bad I don't have room to model this!
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