Lionel 2046 whistle tender frustration

[northernpike]

Question for the experts in postwar whistles...

Picked up a whistle tender.  Worked but armature was scraping the motor field.  Brushes very hot on brush holder. Took commutator plate off, noticed wobble in armature shaft which was causing the scraping.  Cleaned armature face, brushes .  Pulled up on armature with screwdriver slightly and it now spins free.  Put some oil on bottom shaft of armature with it still pried up from screwdriver.  Pushed back, so scraping is solved. Put back together, fired it up and nothing.  Brushes making good contact, solder joints good. Armature spins good. Relay working great but no whistle.  Any suggestions? Or is it time to replace whistle assembly?  Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Northernpike.

 

[lionelsoni]

I don't understand the whole screwdriver-prying thing.  Where exactly did you pry and in what direction?

[northernpike]

The armature appeared to be pushed down too far into bottom of whistle motor, hence the wobble and bind.  It spun hard, resistance, scraping motor field on one side.  By putting flat blade screwdriver between motor bottom and armature, was able to pull armature straight up may 1/16" inch.  No more wobble.  Spins with no bind.  Cannot understand it.

thanks

northernpike

 

[cwburfle]

Time to break out your meter and test the armature and field.
To check the armature:
Remove brushplate, put one probe on the shaft, and the other on each commutator segment, one at a time. There should be no continuity.
Next check each pair of segments. All three readings should be the same. Somewhere around 1-2 ohms.

Next: check the field.

[TrainLarry]

Sounds like the bearings may be worn.

Larry

[Firelock76]

Is there any rotation of the whistle motor at all?  Can you hear a buzzing or humming like it's trying to turn, but can't?

If not, you may want to bypass the relay entirely and shoot some power directly to the motor itself to see if it's still alive.  If the motor turns then you'll have to backtrack through the system to find the problem. 

One other thing.  Over the years dirt, detritus, dead bugs (yuck!) and various bits of junk can find their way into the whistle assembly and cause the impeller (fan) to bind or the whistle ports to be blocked.  The whistle assembly may need a good clean-out.

It's an odd thing but it's true, as conciencious as Lionel owners in the past may have been in taking care of the locomotives, cleaning, lubing, that sort of thing, over the years the whistle tenders on most recieved little or no care at all, leaving us in the present time to pick up the pieces.

I've had some grouchy whistle tenders myself but they always seemed to respond to a good cleaning, brush replacement, armature cleaning (those copper plates should shine like a new penny) and lubrication.  Maybe I was just lucky.

I DID have two modern era whistle tenders die on me recently due to blown circuit boards.  I pulled the Lionel guts out and installed Williams steam sounds kits.  Easy installs, and they work like a charm.

LOUD too!

 

[northernpike]

i bypassed the relay.  Nothing.  No voltage per my voltmeter.  One of the brush holders is black.  Thinking coil shot.  Is that a good assumption?  Nothing on commutator either.

[David1005]

I believe on the 2046W whistle power goes in one brush holder, out the other brush holder to one field connection. The other field lead goes to common through the relay contacts.  Just follow the voltage through the motor with your meter.  if there is voltage on one brush holder, there should be voltage out on the other brush holder. From that brush holder the power should go into the field.  The voltage should come out the other field lead to the relay. Where does the voltage stop in this path?  It there is a armature coil open, the motor should run it you give it a spin. If the field coil is open the problem is usually that one of the leads has broken off.  This can usually be repaired by soldering on a piece of wire. 

[northernpike]

 All joints good.  No continuity.   I am thinking armature or field winding bad.  Going to get replacement whistle.  Thanks for all advice.  Never had one go bad like this.

[alank]

I would trouble shoot some more.   You stated it worked before you took it apart, but had some scraping.   You have eliminated the scraping, and after clean/lube, not working.  Sounds like something not making contact now.   

[northernpike]

Troubleshooting did not do it.  Got a replacement motor and whistle for cheap.  Installed in tender and it works great.  I will keep old one for parts.  Thinking the armature went bad in old.  At least that's what multimeter says....

Thanks for all advice.  Learned quite a bit about whistles tenders.