Lionel 2020W Tender

[TJR]

Hi, I'm having a little trouble trying to determine why this Lionel tender whistle does not work properly.  I have read through most of the forum discussions on whistle tender troubleshooting but still have not figured this out yet. The tender is a Lionel 2020W and the relay will not stay closed when the whistle button on my Lionel 110 watt RW transformer is depressed to the final hold position. The whilstle works fine as the transformer whistle button is first depessed and travels down UNTIL the button gets to the hold position at the bottom. The relay contacts are clean and the whistle works fine if the relay contacts are held in manually. I can operate the relay with a 1.5 volt battery and the contacts will stay closed. The transformer has a new rectifier disc installed and I have a Lionel 6466W tender whistle that works perfectly using the same transformer.  I've tested the 2020W tender running on the track behind my Lionel 2055 locomotive and get the same results. Is it time to try swapping out the relay?  Thanks for any advice.  TJR

[rtraincollector]

Most likely has to do with your whistle control on your transformer. it may be getting worn out. Try to push it down partially and hold it where it will start to whistle and see if it will continue to whistle. If so it probably your button.

[TrainLarry]

Make sure the wheels and rollers on the tender are clean, as is the track. Try installing another new rectifier disc, or changing to a solid state rectifier and see what happens. If that does not work, the relay may be bad.

Larry

[cwburfle]

The whistle circuitry will not work properly unless there is a sufficent load on the transformer. Try adding more cars, or hook a couple of light bulbs up to the same terminals you are using to run the train. (or add some lighted cars).

Your transformer could have dirty contacts or a weak rectifier. That written, in my experience weak rectifiers are uncommon. It does not sound like your whistle relay is bad.

[TJR]

Thanks for all your suggestions, I have a few other RW transformers I can try too. I'll switch out the transformer rectifier with another new one I have and clean the transformer whistle contacts again then revisit all the things I've tried already to make sure I didn't miss anything. Seems like the general consensus is it's most likely not the relay.  TJR

[rtraincollector]

To me if the whistle works with it pushed down partially and will until you hit bttom/end it's in your trainsformer not the tender. 

[David1005]

In the pick up position the transformer should be putting out 5.5 VDC and in the holding position the DC voltage drops to .8 volts. Put a DC meter on the track and see if your transformer is putting out these voltages. If the holding voltage voltage is low it could be that the load on the transformer is too low like CW indicated.  To get .8 volts from the transformer to the whistle relay requires good clean connections.  Deoxit on the roller pin helps, as does clean wheels and rail.  The one I usually have to work on is where the truck contacts the tender frame.  Take the trucks off and sand or wire wheel the frame. Many times gunk or rust in the connection.  

[cwburfle]

In the pick up position the transformer should be putting out 5.5 VDC and in the holding position the DC voltage drops to .8 volts.

The DC bias voltage will vary with the load on the transformer. Those values are for the specific load that a Lionel 5D or 5F test bench puts on the transfomer for the whistle control test.

[David1005]

I do have a 5D tester and I do check out the transformers on it.  But if I have just gone through a tender I check it out on the track.  With a steam loco on the track with the headlight and smoke heater working and the e-unit on and in nutural, I connect a Fluke 23 to the track and set it for volts DC. It the whistle works, the DC volts are very close to the test spec. values.  The holding voltage may run a little higher, maybe up to 1.1 volts.  This is with a ZW set at about 14 VAC. About a year ago I starting working on the steam loco whistles to get them to work properly. On the whistles with the plastic sound chamber I found I had to knock the impeller oFriday the armature shaft.  Then cleaned out the sound chamber really well.  If the sound chamber is cracked I change it. Clean, check, oil, and change if worn, the lower bearing.  Almost always the commutator has to be resurfaced.  The oil wick on the brush plate usually needs to be saturated and reposition so it is toching the shaft.  Then reassembly. On the relay, cleaning the contacts and cleaning all the electrical joints from the center rail through the entire tender back to the outside rail.  With this effort the whistle usually works as I remember them when I was young.  It picks up everytime and blows without dropping out until the whistle switch is released.

David Johnston

[cwburfle]

Years ago I traced the circuits on a 5F wiring diagram and built a whistle control tester.
I use a 5D to test transfomer whistle controls and circuit breakers. I don't use it for any of the other tests.
The older test benches didn't have meters to test whistle controls. They have a whistle assembly with an extra coil to load the item under test.

[TJR]

I have a Fluke 25 and a old school analog Micronta meter for some voltage readings. I will load up my test track with my 2055 loco, 2020W tender and numerous lighted passenger cars and cabooses and do a test with three different transformers today. Thanks again for the help and suggestions.  TJR

[TJR]

First, thanks for all you suggestions and help in getting this Lionel 2020W whistle tender to work on the track.  I tried two RW transformers, one with a new rectifier disc, 2 lighted cabooses & 2 lighted passenger cars with my 2055 engine (smoke unit working) and was able to get the 2020W tender work on the track. I noticed some slight arcing at the relay contacts so I took the relay out again and completely dismantled it, cleaned the contacts again, aligned the contacts and adjusted the gap a little closer. Works fine now using my RW transformer with the new rectifier disc but not very well with two of my other RW's that still have the original rectifier discs. This is my nieces son's tender so I'll have to check what type transformer and additional loads she may have been using with the track. I have one final question on this subject though, would using a newer style type Lionel CW-80 watt transformer be a better option with these older tenders?  Thanks again for your help.  TJR