An American Flyer Tinplate locomotive was included with some Lionel locomotives a friend asked me to refurbish. Aside from the initials AF on the nose and a US Patent No. 1-685-691 on the intermediate gear, there is no indication of its identification.
The two enclosed photos show what was received less the four wheels and intermediate gear. The motor was was removed from the shell and partially disassembled to determine why it was locked up solid. Turns out the intermediate gear "grew", partially disintegrated and pieces became wedged in the drive wheel gears. After removing the wheels and intermediate gear and after lubricating the armature and pinion shaft, I manually turned the armature until it rotated easily, applied power, and the motor ran beautifully.
Although the owner has no real interest in this locomotive, I am compelled to give this toy a second life. I am not familiar with American Flyer and would like to learn if this locomotive has a model designation/name, when was it manufactured, is there a viewable document indicating its features, a parts list, and a parts source? For sure, this locomotive needs an intermediate gear, side rods and probably a non geared wheel with side rod boss.
Would really appreciate your assistance.
Thank you, swede
rrswede,
What you have is an American Flyer Sheet-metal Hiawatha that was uncataloged but appeared in dealer price lists in 1936 and 1937. Schuweiler says that the engines were numbered as 630 and 634. The engine headed up both freight and passenger sets. A different tender was used for each. The same engine shell was used for electric or windup sets. I believe that some of the electric versions were equipped with the same mechanical whistle that comes in some of the uncataloged 401's. Schuweiler calls this the Type XXIII sheet metal engine.
I am not an expert on parts but I don't think that the intermediate gear has been reproduced by anyone and has resulted in a host of shelf queens who would like to run but cant get the power to the drive wheels. It seems to me that I have read a thread somewhere that illustrates the motor being substituted with a Marx motor. I don't know of any parts list or exploded views of the engine either. It was pretty much a low priced entry level engine. But I bet it was well loved and used because most of the examples that I have seen have been well played with.
Perhaps someone else will chime in with additional information.
Good Luck
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Thank you very much for the response and information, Northwoods Flyer.
When disassembling the locomotive, the motor and setup for the side rods did look like Marx but I have never seen a Marx motor with riveted brush plate. Since there is no deadline to refurbish this locomotive, I will keep my eyes open to see if I can find a means to motorize it. The Marx suggestion is intriguing.
Again, thank you
swede
You are welcome. One other option would be to find a doner engine where the shell is really bad, but the gears are still in good shape. The sheetmetal Hiawatha shows up on ebay fairly often.
Nobody has reproduced that gear, so the only option is to find a donor motor / parts. That can be difficult also, as unless you see the gear in person, because the disintegration of that gear is quite common.
NWL
NWL,
From your observations is that gear used in other motors as well? I'm surprised no one has reproduced it yet. Maybe someone could start a cottage industry.
The gear was used on several different engines in the mid 1930s. Unfortunately, the problem with reproducing gears, is getting the teeth correct. One problem with doing a die cast reproduction, is that it is a gear and the castings (teeth especially) do not hold up well.
Thank you, Nationwidelines and Northwoods Flyer for continuing the flow of information.
Yes, the gear was in sorry shape and the teeth that were not missing could easily have been sheared if the motor had actually rotated. I am surprised that the teeth on the wheels did not deteriorate. The casting quality does not look adequate.
Since I do not typically look at AF items on Ebay, what should I pay attention to to help narrow in on the correct motor/gear? How do I identify the motors that would have used the same gear?
That gear was used mainly on the electric sheetmetal bodied steam engines and a couple of smaller cast iron steam engines. As for how to recognize the gear, any die cast gear that looks to be the same size, is going to be the same gear, as American Flyer used the same basic motor (and hence gear) for many different lower cost engines.
In searching for an engine on ebay, if you spot one that you think has the gear, ask the seller for a close-up picture of the gear. If the motor has the gear, ask the seller if the wheels rotate properly (if there are wheels present), ask if all of the teeth are present, ask if there are any cracks in the gear. If the wheels do not turn, that could be a sign that the gear is bad, but it could also be a sign that the gears on the wheels are bad and binding.
American Flyer items from the 1930s are known for their casting problems, which appear to be due to impurities in the metal. So you often will find an engine with 1 or 2 wheels that are bad, or a gear being bad, but the associated wheels being ok. It can be hit and miss for items being ok or being bad. I know that I often buy junker engines to find original wheels, as some of the reproductions just do not pass my standards. Unfortunately, I do not have any of extra gears that you are looking for at the present time.
Thank you, Nationwidelines. The Ebay search has begun. The motor is unique enough that I should be able to spot it. Will also ask seller about wheel and gear condition as well as motor rotation.
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