Best Old World Craftsmanship, USA made F3?

[ADCX Rob]

Ah, it was the freight set, not the passenger or 2046 sets.

[Expat1]

JoeD1980

Please, tell me more of the 10E. Great runner? I have no experience with the prewar, as my Gram was only 17 when that engine was built!

Funny, I am partial to my B&O MPC F3, a disaster from the minute I bought it, but now fixed and running as well as it can. A real heap at some points, but somehow, oddly, one of my all time favorites. It angers train friends that its "value" is so low, which I think makes me like it all the more :)

 

10E is built our out of sheet steel, it is a 4 wheel, single motor electric outline locomotive.  It is heavy, although I've never put it on a scale it probably weighs 4 pounds.  It will haul the 3 sheet metal passenger cars that came in the set at a fair clip all day.  It is a great runner, still, after 88 years.  It's noisey, has sharp edges and more than likely lead paint.  I bought the set at a train store in Dallas over 15 years ago for about $800 in excellent shape.  I have an 8E and several standard gauge freight cars including a cattle car from 1915 and a caboose from 1906.  As I have a Legacy system, I run them using this outfit by raising track voltage in conventional mode with no issues. I also have a Basset Lowke (British made) Mogul that is a live steamer that is a kick to run as well. 

[lionelsoni]

From the 1950 catalog, describing the 1467W set, pulled by the yellow 2023:

"Brand new this year in celebration of Lionel's Golden Anniversary."

[ADCX Rob]

cwburfle

By the way, Lionel never called that 1950 set an anniversary set. That is a name that we train folks put on it.

My recollection is that the only catalog set mentioning the anniversary was a 2046 pulled outfit.

[cwburfle]

Yes there was a 2023 UP in yellow and gray that headed up the anniversary set in 1950. There was also a Silver and gray 2023, as well as an all silver 2033. Other road names were Erie and Rock Island.

I also have the 1993/1994 reissue, along with the passenger cars.  The construction seems to be close to the original 1950 locomotive. Mine has not be run, so I cannot comment on how well they work.

By the way, Lionel never called that 1950 set an anniversary set. That is a name that we train folks put on it.

Thanks for the complement on my posts.

[Anonymous]

CW,

I have read a lot of your posts and always enjoy them. Is the 2023 the UP Alco from the 1950 anniversary set? I didn't have the originals, but I did buy the 1993/1994 (or was it 96?) reissue. I remember the dealer saying "Well, you know, they're not the originals, but they're still US made," like he was apologizing. They were great runners. I do like those originals myself. Truly a great set.

[cwburfle]

For diesels, I'd pick the 2023 series Alcos and 622 series Switchers (same mechanism).

[Anonymous]

Please, tell me more of the 10E. Great runner? I have no experience with the prewar, as my Gram was only 17 when that engine was built!

Funny, I am partial to my B&O MPC F3, a disaster from the minute I bought it, but now fixed and running as well as it can. A real heap at some points, but somehow, oddly, one of my all time favorites. It angers train friends that its "value" is so low, which I think makes me like it all the more :)

[Expat1]

JoeD1980

Hey all!

I was wondering about the community's feelings on this idea:

Which era of Lionel's USA production represents the best of "Old World," USA, handmade craftsmanship?  I'm going to pick the F3 as an example, since mostly anyone reading this has probably owned at least one from 1948 until 2001.

I always figured that back in the Postwar days production and demand were so high, it was a matter of assembling and getting the product out to dealers (Not to knock in any way postwar - I love it)

My experience with early MPC is that it was made to a price point for profit (Not to knock MPC, which is my tied for my favorite era)

MPC definately got better, and then I would think Lionel became more of a handcrafted, "boutique" type company when Mr. Kughn took over.

The LLC era F3's are among my absolute favorites, with great road names and from my experience, wonderful quality.  I don't know if production techniques were greatly improved (were they still using the same tools and methods from the 50's?) or quality was better because workers had more time to spend on each item due to lower production, but I love this era.

With all that being said, my vote for the highwater mark of USA F3 production is the Texas Special F3 A-B from the PWC Series. Packaging, color, everything, just awesome.

I could be completely wrong about all or any of this (but I must mention that has NEVER happened before), so I am really looking forward to what you guys and girls think!

Thanks!

 

I'm sort of partial to my Standard Gauge 10E built in 1929.

[bridgeengineer]

I'd say that any of the postwar Lionel steamers with transverse armatures were the best, easy to clean the commutators, lube the armatures, spur gears, axles, etc.

 

[ADCX Rob]

Firelock76

...My first Lionel steamer was a 2018, and it's still alive and running strong. 

It's just a baby compared to the prewar/postwar 1666E/1666 that it was based on. And those things run, & run, & run...

Not as complex as the horizontal motor F3, but very well engineered.

[Firelock76]

Everyone may laugh at this, and that's OK with me, but I'd have to nominate for the best of Lionel's post war production the humble, simple, rugged, reliable, non-prototypical 2018 steamer and it's brethren, the old 2-6-4. 

Darn near bulletproof and easy to fix if something goes wrong, look how many are still out there doing what they were built to do.  My first Lionel steamer was a 2018, and it's still alive and running strong. 

[ADCX Rob]

The 1948-1955 horizontal motored F3 was the epitome of old world craftsmanship & engineering... they were electro-mechanical masterpieces and pretty good models too.

[sir james I]

MPCs with 2 motors were good. Newer I like the NYC and Wabash freight sets.

[Anonymous]

Hey all!

I was wondering about the community's feelings on this idea:

Which era of Lionel's USA production represents the best of "Old World," USA, handmade craftsmanship?  I'm going to pick the F3 as an example, since mostly anyone reading this has probably owned at least one from 1948 until 2001.

I always figured that back in the Postwar days production and demand were so high, it was a matter of assembling and getting the product out to dealers (Not to knock in any way postwar - I love it)

My experience with early MPC is that it was made to a price point for profit (Not to knock MPC, which is my tied for my favorite era)

MPC definately got better, and then I would think Lionel became more of a handcrafted, "boutique" type company when Mr. Kughn took over.

The LLC era F3's are among my absolute favorites, with great road names and from my experience, wonderful quality.  I don't know if production techniques were greatly improved (were they still using the same tools and methods from the 50's?) or quality was better because workers had more time to spend on each item due to lower production, but I love this era.

With all that being said, my vote for the highwater mark of USA F3 production is the Texas Special F3 A-B from the PWC Series. Packaging, color, everything, just awesome.

I could be completely wrong about all or any of this (but I must mention that has NEVER happened before), so I am really looking forward to what you guys and girls think!

Thanks!