Hey, I've been busy all afternoon trying to take a basic 2 position E-Unit from a cheap MPC locomotive and put it into a postwar "Texas Special" 1055 ALCo so I can run it in both forward and reverse. I attempted wire it in, but quickl realized that, apparently, I had no idea what to do. The reverser shifts between two ground wires, but I could jog figure out Howe on earth to implement them into my locomotive. I tried this and that, but no luck. I'm waiting for that person to come in and say "hey you idiot that's obviously never going to work", and feel like an idiot for not just knowing you can't wire these into a locomotive that was made factory fresh as a one-directional locomotive. help, anyone? I know this much: Lionel used universal motors. That means you can run the motor off of either AC or DC, it isn't different between the two. In order to change the direction of the motor, you reverse the direction you send the electricity, through both the field and the brushes. A reversing unit is basically a solinoid that flips a switch altering how the contacts going in and out of it are lined up electrically, thus flipping the polarity of the motor and changing its direction through the various alignments of contacts made in the e-unit. Is this all correct? What am I doing wrong? I mean, what right thing am I not doing that I should do?
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
Hello Leverettrailfan,
my gut feeling is to leave it alone. This could be a complex project. It is possible, but you would have to study wiring diagrams, and then again this may not be the correct E-Unit. They had an article a few years back in CTT about the late ALCO's, and some of them had a 2 position e-unit going to a double wound field coil. I am sure your motor only has a single winding. So, you might have to get a more standard e-unit and try to wire it in. I would say to just enjoy it as it is. This may be too difficult.
Paul
"hey you idiot that's obviously never going to work".
Leverettrailfan What am I doing wrong? I mean, what right thing am I not doing that I should do?
You are using a 2 position reverse unit instead of the required 3 position E-unit. The reason is that the 1055 has a single wound field coil, the 2 position e-unit requires a double wound field.
Rob
As has already been mentioned, you would have to use three position e-unit.
We all have to learn these things as we go along.
Post war E-unit # 100-11
MPC # 8552-250
Look here to wire it.
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/ho/d200a.pdf
Parts
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/ho/d200b.pdf
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
Leverettrailfan, everybody's right that it's not practical to use a 2-position e-unit in that locomotive. However, you did also ask whether this were true:
"In order to change the direction of the motor, you reverse the direction you send the electricity, through both the field and the brushes. A reversing unit is basically a solinoid that flips a switch altering how the contacts going in and out of it are lined up electrically, thus flipping the polarity of the motor and changing its direction through the various alignments of contacts made in the e-unit."
That's not quite right. The e-unit changes the direction of current in either the field or the armature, but not both. You can see that this is the case by considering that, when you run a universal motor on AC, the same current flows through both the field and the armature; so the alternation of the AC current waveform itself 120 times each second does change the direction of current in both parts of the motor--yet the motor does not reverse direction as that happens.
The e-unit actually reverses the current direction in one motor part relative to the other part. The usual Lionel wiring for a 3-position e-unit makes that change to the armature; but it would work just as well if it changed the field-current direction instead.
For a 2-position e-unit, the change does happen in the field. It is done by having two field windings, each wound around the core in the direction opposite to the other. So, rather than reverse the connections to a single winding, the 2-position e-unit can just switch from one winding to the other to get the same effect. Since your motor has only one field winding, you can't use this clever scheme with your locomotive.
Bob Nelson
Thank you all for your helpful advice! I believe the 3-positions are a bit expensive, but I have an American Flyer 307 that I could use the reverse unit from. It is a 4 position of course, but works off of the same principals as that of Lionel's I'm pretty sure. Anyhow, I think I'll see if I can get away with this.
One one more question- say I put some diodes into the circuit, so reversing unit was changing DC power through the brushes, and the field just recieved standard alternating current or whatever. Would it be able to function like a DC motor, and run on the AC track? Just an idea, I don't think ive really thought it through at all. I'm going to move forwards with my plan to use the 307's reverser, and maybe experiment briefly with trying to run the motor like a DC one briefly. I would need to find a way so the reverser shifted two leads instead of one- a ground and a hot. Could be possible though if I did that, I think. I haven't got much else better to do, so I'm all out for taking time to experiment with electronics.
Price is not to bad. I just got a NOS MPC of the same as you need last week on E-Bay $36.00 delivered to the door. Then it is right and no screwing around.
No offense to those into American Flyer, but in my experience, A.F. reversing units are somewhat troublesome. Plus you can drop in a Lionel 3 position e-unit without any modifications (if the cab roof has the slot cut out for it). By the way, the Lionel 3-position e-unit, in reality, is also a 4 position e-unit. One one more question- say I put some diodes into the circuit, so reversing unit was changing DC power through the brushes, and the field just recieved standard alternating current or whatever
No. The armature and field have to have the same type of power, either AC or DC, you cannot mix.
Thinking about it, I guess, do what you want because it is yours and to tell the truth...For me, I would not give $36.00 for a 1055 unless I needed a shell or frame or something like that, they are the arm pit of the 200 series ALCOs. No traction tire or nothing. So why not use it as a experiment?
If for some reason you don't want/need the "distant control" automatic/remote reverse sequencing, you can use a simple $1 DPDT switch to change direction manually. The 3 position E-Unit is a DPDT-center off sequencing switch.
If, as you say, you put a bridge rectifier upstream of the armature, you will have converted the motor to a DC motor. But it won't run on AC track voltage--you will need DC on the track.
You can get that with another bridge rectifier between the transformer and the track. If you reverse the polarity of the DC track voltage, you reverse the motor.
But you'll have a problem with any locomotive that has a whistle or bell, which will sound continuously. You also may have trouble with any AC circuits that you might have powered with other outputs of the transformer, which will no longer have a common connection to the track.
Note that this arrangement does reversing with no moving parts in the locomotive (except the motor itself), just like DC-motored HO and N trains.
just to fan the fire a little, another thought would be to try to find a similar engine that already has reversing , and swap out the shell. Maybe a 202, if the shell would fit ?
The 'ol switcheroo...
Postwar Lionel ALCOs can be divided into two major groups: those with die cast metal chassis, and those with sheet metal chassis.All the shells for the die cast metal chassis are interchangeable, but the frames show, and they are painted different colors to match specific shells. These are Lionel's first models. The ALCOs with sheet metal chassis should be further divided into two groups: those with front couples, and those without front couples. All of the shells within the same group can be interchanged, so long as you check for the e-unit slot up on the roof. Your 1055 Texas Special does not have a front couple. I'd have to look at one to see whether it has an e-unit slot.
If it does, you can mount it on any alco chassis that does not have a front couple. If it does not have an e-unit slot, then you'd have to either create one, or find another solution. As a point of information, the sheet metal ALCO's evolved over time, and there were different configurations offered. Knowledgeable collectors want matching shells and chassis. Operators usually don't worry about it. If you find a sheet metal ALCO chassis with a front coupler, they are usually fairly easy to remove, although drilling or filing may be required.
very informative ! You know your ALCO's . It's true; Lionel takes a little more thought, and knowledge , to mix and match. In HO trains, it was always very easy to swap Athearn shells without any consideration about the fit. Lionel has some changes from model to model. Some are more similar, some are less.
Postwar Paul just to fan the fire a little, another thought would be to try to find a similar engine that already has reversing , and swap out the shell. Maybe a 202, if the shell would fit ? The 'ol switcheroo... Paul
A 202 would be easy and work, And they are easy to get/plentiful and cheap. They also have one axle of magnetraction unlike the 1055.
Leverettrailfan,
it looks like you have several options:
1. leave it as is
2. purchase a 3 position e-unit, and wire it in
3. find a similar loco with reversing, and shell swap.
The decision is yours, Good Luck !
Once again, thanks for all the advice, I do not want to spend more than $5 on anything for my 1055, I wired in the flyer reverse unit and now I jet need to fix it as the reverser is a bit sticky. I may also try to find a way to give it traction tires. I know it was not intended for them, but so long as all the wheels on the powered truck were equipped, it might work out. Or even putting some rubber bands close in to the flange. I'll do that probably. It should give some improvement. i am also adding weight. I wired in a manual reverse switch that I placed on the bracket for a reverse unit which my ALCo has, and so I can manually turn off the locomotive with a switch on the top. Very nice for me! I may try to custom make a horn and relay circuit for it too. Depends.
That is really Cool !!You have resolved all the issues, and made a few improvements . Great job !
your last comment is great ! That's where I am, too ! ( Dang, lost another patient )
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month