hi everyone! I recently bought a lionel type C prewar transformer in a lot but i cant find anything about it in the 2016 Greenberg's guide to lionel trains. I know they dont include everything but in the section they seem to list AA BB as in Type A transformer and a type A motor, same for "B" and so one, but for type "C" it only lists the motor, could this mean the transformer is rare? Thanks for any info!
Um, well...you bought a great collectable. But you probably can't use it.
According to the "Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains: 1900-1942" by David Doyle, 2005 printing: "C TRANSFORMER This 75-watt Multivolt transformer was designed to operate on 25- to 40-cyle current and was sold from 1922 through 1931. It had stepped voltage output." Standard 21st century house current is 60 cycles which is higher than the Type C's rating. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's going to have to be a "shelf queen" unless you have 25 to 40 cycle current to operate it with.
Here's a list of prewar transformers to help you avoid making another bad purchase:
For standard gauge the best choices are the T, K, V and Z because of their higher output voltage which is helpful when running "less than great condition" vintage equipment. However notice that types V and Z have no fixed voltage taps, so while they have a lot of power to run the trains, you'll most likely need a secondary unit to run accessories.
Hope this helps! It's a bummer, I know. But we've all been there!
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Penny Trains Um, well...you bought a great collectable. But you probably can't use it. According to the "Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains: 1900-1942" by David Doyle, 2005 printing: "C TRANSFORMER This 75-watt Multivolt transformer was designed to operate on 25- to 40-cyle current and was sold from 1922 through 1931. It had stepped voltage output." Standard 21st century house current is 60 cycles which is higher than the Type C's rating. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's going to have to be a "shelf queen" unless you have 25 to 40 cycle current to operate it with. Here's a list of prewar transformers to help you avoid making another bad purchase: Type A (1) 1921-31: 40w 60cycle Type A (2) 1931-37: 60w 60c Type B (1) 1916-17: 50w 60c Type B (2) 1917-21: 75w 60c Type B (3) 1921-31: 50w 60c Type B (4) 1932-38: 75w 60c Type C 1922-31: 75w 25-40c Type F 1931-37: 40w 25-40c Type H 1938-39: 75w 25-40c Type K (1) 1913-17: 150w 60c 29v Type K (2) 1917-21: 200w 60c 29v Type K (3) 1921-38: 150w 60c 29v Brass identification plates Type K (4) late: 150w 60c 29v Nickel identification plates Type L (1) 1913-16: 75w 60c Type L (2) 1933-38: 50w 60c Type N 1941-42: 50w 60c Type Q (1) 1914-15: 50w 60c Type Q (2) 1938-42, 46: 75w 60c Type R 1939-42: 100w 60c Type S (1) 1914-17: 50w 60c Type S (2) 1938-42, 47: 80w 60c Type T (1) 1914-17: 75w 60c 29v Type T (2) 1917-21: 150w 60c 29v Type T (3) 1921-22: 110w 60c 29v Brass plates Type T (4) 1922: 100w 60c 29v Brass plates Type T (5) 1922: 100w 60c 29v Nickel plates Type U 1932-33: 50w 60c ALLADIN also Ives type Y Type V 1938-42, 1946-47: 150w 60c no fixed voltage taps Type W 1933-42: 75w 60c Type WX 1933-42: 75w 25c Type Z 1938-42, 1946-47: 250w 60c no fixed voltage taps For standard gauge the best choices are the T, K, V and Z because of their higher output voltage which is helpful when running "less than great condition" vintage equipment. However notice that types V and Z have no fixed voltage taps, so while they have a lot of power to run the trains, you'll most likely need a secondary unit to run accessories. Hope this helps! It's a bummer, I know. But we've all been there! Becky
A transformer designed for a lower frequency should work just fine at 60 hertz.
Small transformers, like those for toy trains, are usually designed to go slightly into saturation, to make them a little smaller and cheaper. Operating at over twice the design frequency may therefore result in cooler running, with a very clean sinusoidal voltage waveform.
Bob Nelson
Hi,
I concur with Lionelsoni. I have a type H transformer which I have used for years to power accessories, even though it was designed to operate at the lower frequencies mentioned.
Take care,
Dick
Becky,
That's quite a list of transformers but you forgot the VW from 1948 & 49. It is rated at 150 watts, similar to the ZW except for it's wattage. Also the ZW had 3 models; one 250 watt(48 & 49) & two 275 watt(50 to 56) ones, one ZW had the type R(57 to 66)on it.
Lee Fritz
Lee, Becky's list was of prewar transformers.
Becky, the V and Z each have four controllable output voltages, two of which were apparently meant for accessories. However, except for their smaller knobs, they are equivalent to the big-knob controls.
TTFTW, using a transformer at a higher-than-intended frequency is a good thing, not just something you can get away with. In fact, since the utilization voltage has risen over the past century (from 110 up to 120 volts), prewar 60-hertz transformers get more stress by being plugged into modern outlets than their designers expected and get hotter even with no load. But using a 110-volt 25-hertz transformer at 120 volts and 60 hertz more than compensates for that increased voltage. Your transformer is electrically better suited to running your trains than any prewar or postwar 60-hertz transformer.
lionelsoni Lee, Becky's list was of prewar transformers. Becky, the V and Z each have four controllable output voltages, two of which were apparently meant for accessories. However, except for their smaller knobs, they are equivalent to the big-knob controls. TTFTW, using a transformer at a higher-than-intended frequency is a good thing, not just something you can get away with. In fact, since the utilization voltage has risen over the past century (from 110 up to 120 volts), prewar 60-hertz transformers get more stress by being plugged into modern outlets than their designers expected and get hotter even with no load. But using a 110-volt 25-hertz transformer at 120 volts and 60 hertz more than compensates for that increased voltage. Your transformer is electrically better suited to running your trains than any prewar or postwar 60-hertz transformer.
Yes. As long as it is in good condition and puts out the voltage and power you need, I would choose it over a 60-hertz transformer, especially over a 60-hertz prewar one.
I use a couple of Zs to power my layout. But, to keep them from heating up on modern line voltage, I power them through a big isolation transformer with taps that lower the voltage even below the prewar level. That would be quite expensive if I had had to buy the isolation transformer; but I rescued it from being thrown away. You can get the same advantage for free!
lionelsoni Yes. As long as it is in good condition and puts out the voltage and power you need, I would choose it over a 60-hertz transformer, especially over a 60-hertz prewar one. I use a couple of Zs to power my layout. But, to keep them from heating up on modern line voltage, I power them through a big isolation transformer with taps that lower the voltage even below the prewar level. That would be quite expensive if I had had to buy the isolation transformer; but I rescued it from being thrown away. You can get the same advantage for free!
Yes.
It doesn't effect the output voltage to the trains?
lol okay! thanks again! sorry for the non intellectual questions.
Becky, not as long as the frequency (60 hertz) is no lower than the transformer was designed for (25 hertz). Notice that the transformer was rated for either 25 or 40 hertz (notwithstanding that the hertz had not yet been invented!). Those were just the two most popular frequencies at that time that were less than 60. The transformer will work at 25 or above. For example, you could run it, or any postwar toy-train transformer, on the 400 hertz found in airplane electrical systems.
By the way, that 25 hertz was the frequency of the generators at Niagara Falls and was commonly found in New York. It is still used for the electrified track on the East Coast.
I'll second the recommendation to use a "V" or a "Z". Those transformers are very nicely built, and deliver variable voltage between 6 and 24 volts. I'd add external circuit breakers to each power terminal that is in use. I like postwar #91 adjustable electromagnetic circuit breakers. There are other solutions, including the prewar #91 electromagnetic cirucit breaker. I think I've seen the prewar ones in single range and dual range versions. They are not adjustable. Those prewar transformers, with their metal cases, strike me as being a hazard.
Or plug the transformer into a GFI outlet, or ground the case.
Bob N, thanks for clarifing that. Also nice to know about the older transformers able to work with today's voltage.
Lee
I hang around here because I learn something every day!
Hi everyone,
Just read the post above regarding transformers. Just unpacked my father's Lionel train which has not been run in 20 years. I took it to a local train store and the engine & tender ran fine on the train store's track I am looking for help on how to wire the transformer (Type T 100 watts/110 volts/60 cycles) to the Whistle Controller #66 to the circuit breaker to the track. The train is about 90 years old and in good shape. Unfortunately, there are no directions on how to wire it. I have my Lionel train set-up but do not think my transformer has the juice to move my father's train and his train cannot run on my track anyway. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
aboard!
The type T is a good unit for prewar trains. I'd also recommend acquiring a number 95 rheostat to get a greater range of speed control.
Same me, different spelling!
ArizonaAndyUnfortunately, there are no directions on how to wire it.
Rob
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