American Flyer Alco 470 issue

[Flyer Bob]

I'm pretty new to working on Flyer engines and am having an isssue with a dual motor Flyer Alco 470 diesel that I purchased 10+ years ago and had never run. When I attempted to run it, I discovered that both motors were seized with dirt and lubricant that had congealed. I spent a lot of time freeing up both motors and carefully reassembled them, following the illustration in the K-Line Flyer manual. In the whole process, I didn't disconnect or reconnect any wires. 

When I test ran the chassis on some track, I discovered that the two motors were working against each other; in other words, the wheels on each truck are turning in the opposite direction, either pushing or pulling against each other. Can anyone suggest what might be causing this problem?

One thing I noticed is that when I look at one side of the chassis, the green wires are attached to the brushes of both motors, and when I look at the other side, the yellow wires are attached to both brushes on that side. I'm wondering if the wires should be switched on one motor.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,

Bob

[Nationwidelines]

If the motors are working against each other, the motors polarity are not in sync and there must be a wiring issue.  It sounds like you need to reverse the polarity on one of the motors, so that they both run in the same direction.

[Flyer Bob]

My suspicion precisely. Thanks very much for confirming.

While I have your attention, I have a line one a dual motor chassis and a couple of motors that fit, and I have this crazy idea about installing those in the 473 dummy. Any advice?

Regards,

Bob

[irontooth]

Hello Bob.

I was just looking thru an old issue of Classic Toy Trains and found an article on AF PA-1 units. it has a wiring diagram of a dual motor.  Looking down on the unit with headlight pointing away from you so you have right side and left side and  rear of chassis facing you the wires go:

 

Front motor

Left brush  Green,  Right Brush  Yellow

Rear Motor

 

Left Brush  Yellow     Right Brush   Green

 

So I would agree that one of the motors is wired wrong and you would just need to switch the Green and Yellow wires around on one set of brushes. If the Yellow wires are on the right hand brushes then the rear motor is the one that needs to be corrected, if the Yellows wires are on the left hand brushes then the front motor needs to be corrected.

Mike

PS If I am incorrect please let me know thanks

[Flyer Bob]

[quote user="irontooth"]

Hello Bob.

I was just looking thru an old issue of Classic Toy Trains and found an article on AF PA-1 units. it has a wiring diagram of a dual motor.  Looking down on the unit with headlight pointing away from you so you have right side and left side and  rear of chassis facing you the wires go:

 

Front motor

Left brush  Green,  Right Brush  Yellow

Rear Motor

 

Left Brush  Yellow     Right Brush   Green

 

So I would agree that one of the motors is wired wrong and you would just need to switch the Green and Yellow wires around on one set of brushes. If the Yellow wires are on the right hand brushes then the rear motor is the one that needs to be corrected, if the Yellows wires are on the left hand brushes then the front motor needs to be corrected.

Mike

PS If I am incorrect please let me know thanks

 

Thanks very much, Mike. I checked the wires and the front ones are on wrong. The left one is yellow and the right one is green. I suspected that was the problem, but as I say, I'm pretty new to this, so it's good to have confirmation by someone with more knowledge.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

[irontooth]

Hi Bob

Let us know if that solves the problem and if your 470 runs like new. I have several AF Alcos and once you get them degreased, cleaned and lubed they run smooth.

Thanks

Mike

[Flyer Bob]

[quote user="irontooth"]

Hi Bob

Let us know if that solves the problem and if your 470 runs like new. I have several AF Alcos and once you get them degreased, cleaned and lubed they run smooth.

Thanks

Mike

 

And this now is. I just have to get a length of pipe cleaner to replace a lost wick in one of the holes that oils the bearings an that will be it.

 

BTW, have you ever considered powering any of your dummie Alcos and double heading them?

[cwburfle]

Replace a lost wick with pipe cleaner..... is that what flyer repair folks do?

I ask because all the wicks that I recall seeing were made of thick felt. I don't think a pipe cleaner would work very well as a long term replacement (temporary should be fine). I'd look for a repro from a Flyer parts dealer.

That written, I don't rely on wicks as the primary source of lubrication. I always apply lubricant directly to the bearing, as well as lightly wetting the wick.

While we are on the subject of lubrication, what sort of lubricants are you using? There are many acceptable ones, so there are lots of "correct" answers.
I like to use the oil from a "Zoomspout" oiler, which is Unicol 76 Turbine oil. For grease I use either Labelle 106, or on occasion, Lucas Red N'Tacky.

[Flyer Bob]

Thanks very much for your comments, CW.

To address your first one, I asked Doug Peck at Port Lines, who has been a great help on my questions, about replacement wicks for the Alco-type engines, and he responded that American Flyer actually did use pipe cleaner in the small holes that lead to the bearings, which is why I said I was going to use that in mine. AF steamers, of course, had the circular felt lubricating wicks.

As regards what lubricants I use, again on Doug's advice I use Woodland Scenics Hob-E-Lube Lite Oil 662 and Gear Lube HL664. These come in a very handy applicator with a long needle nose that lets you get in tight places and apply lubricant very sparingly.

Hope this helps. I know that the input I've received has been invaluable.

Regards,

Bob

 

[cwburfle]

Thank you for the reply. I don't think you can go wrong following Doug Peck's advice. I buy my Flyer parts from him.
Next time I have a Flyer diesel apart, I am going to take a closer look at those wicks!