Cleaning Prewar Lionel O & Standard Gauge Trains with Baby Wipes

[Firelock76]

I suppose the one thing we have to keep in the back of our minds is the manufacturors, Lionel, American Flyer, et al were making toys, not units they expected to last to the end of civilization.  Rugged toys yes, indestructable toys no.

[cwburfle]

Considering the last two posts it looks like Laurastom was right when she mentioned ink being used instead of paint.

WHAT were they thinking?  Well, I can imagine, but I'll stop here.

The red on a 219 crane boom is not ink.
In my experience, the paint on a red on some 395 light towers is not washable either.
As I recall, the "Radio Equiped" lettering ona 2349 is not heat stamped.
But the color of some heat stamped lettering will easily wash away too.
Lionel used a number of different decorating techniques.

Unfortunately, some of them are not washable. 
 

[Firelock76]

Considering the last two posts it looks like Laurastom was right when she mentioned ink being used instead of paint.

WHAT were they thinking?  Well, I can imagine, but I'll stop here.

As the old Sarge on "Hill Street Blues" used to say, "Be careful out there!"

[cwburfle]

  Later, when I bought a postwar Lionel 2349 Northern Pacific GP9 diesel from 1959-60, I was cleaning the body with a damp cloth, and lo and behold, the red "Radio Equipped" lettering and lightning arrows washed right off to my everlasting dismay.

You have my sympathy. There are numerous gotchas when trying to clean Lionel trains. I've ruined my share of pieces. I still make the occasional mistake, even after over 40 years of doing this stuff.

[bridgeengineer]

When I bought a postwar Lionel 6556 MKT stock car from a dealer, he warned me that its red paint from 1958 would not hold up to water, so clean it only with a soft brush.  Later, when I bought a postwar Lionel 2349 Northern Pacific GP9 diesel from 1959-60, I was cleaning the body with a damp cloth, and lo and behold, the red "Radio Equipped" lettering and lightning arrows washed right off to my everlasting dismay.

[cwburfle]

Here's the thing, water evaporates, oil does not.  You can speed waters evaporation/drying process  with some blasts of compressed air, you can't do the same with oil.  I base my opinion on oil from nearly four decades of handling various painted metal antiques that some folks tried to preserve by putting a thin film of oil on them, with long-term bad results. If you want to preserve a painted surface the best thing to use is a paste wax, and not a polish.  Most, if not all, polishes have some abrasive in them.  There's chemical polishes, but they're only suitable for bare metals.

At any rate, don't try to clean any antique with the idea of making it "look new."  It's NOT new.  Just keep it clean and let it show its age proudly.  This last bit of advice is aimed at anyone who might be reading this.

All great points!

Here is a link to the polish that some folks I know are using. As I previously posted, I've experimented with using it.
I would not use it on a desirable piece, only on runner equipment.

http://www.zymol.com/cleanerwax.aspx

[Firelock76]

"Do you have much experience with cleaning pre-war Lionel tin?"

In all honesty, no I don't.  I won't pretend otherwise.

"But a water based product would not?"

Here's the thing, water evaporates, oil does not.  You can speed waters evaporation/drying process  with some blasts of compressed air, you can't do the same with oil.  I base my opinion on oil from nearly four decades of handling various painted metal antiques that some folks tried to preserve by putting a thin film of oil on them, with long-term bad results. If you want to preserve a painted surface the best thing to use is a paste wax. The wax will put a good barrier between the finished surface and the atmosphere, which is where most of the trouble comes from.  Don't use a polish.  Most, if not all, polishes have some abrasive in them.  There are chemical polishes, but they're only suitable for bare metals.

At any rate, don't try to clean any antique with the idea of making it "look new."  It's NOT new.  Just keep it clean and let it show its age proudly.  This last bit of advice is aimed at anyone who might be reading this.

[Laurastom]

The red that washes off with plain water could be a form of ink. Gilbert used an ink for the red highlights on postwar items such as the 755 Talking station and the 593 Signal Tower. It will come off easily and quickly with water.

[cwburfle]

I still can't figure out what kind of paint cwburfle's got on his old Lionel collectables, especially considering he can wash it off with water.  I mean, look at the agony people go through stripping old paint from old Lionel die-cast engines.

Do you have much experience with cleaning prewar Lionel tin?

The black paint Lionel used on their diecast steam engines is tough and difficult to remove.

What does one have to do with the other?

I'd be a bit leery of using an oil, light or otherwise, on an old paint-on-metal finish, there's always the possibility the oil may penetrate flaws in the paint and lift it off the metal.

But a water based product would not?
By the way, the idea is to just moisten a soft cloth with oil, not to apply oil directly to the surface of the item to be cleaned.

Some folks I know use Zymol automotive polish.
I have played with it, and am not certain whether I like it.
One of the problems with any polish is getting an even look around details and in cracks and corners. And it can be very difficult to remove all the residue.

Experienced collectors can usually recognize that something has been polished. I would not purchase an item that was.

[Firelock76]

I'd be a bit leery of using an oil, light or otherwise, on an old paint-on-metal finish, there's always the possibility the oil may penetrate flaws in the paint and lift it off the metal.

I still can't figure out what kind of paint cwburfle's got on his old Lionel collectables, especially considering he can wash it off with water.  I mean, look at the agony people go through stripping old paint from old Lionel die-cast engines.

[Michael6268]

I figure if their safe enough for a baby, they're  safe for a train.  Agreed, very old or compromised finishes require caution.

[cwburfle]

Be aware that some of the paints Lionel used will wash off with just plain water. I have had very bad experience with the red that was used on 219 crane booms.

Without checking: I beleive Louis Hertz recommended using a light oil on a soft cloth, after first trying it in a small area, as hidden as possbile.

[temp0101]

teledoc

CW brings up a good point, and I guess it all depends on which brand of Baby Wipes you are using.  There are quite a few brands on the market, and all are manufactured to different standards, with different ingredients.  I would say that the basic wipe itself is a Micro-fiber cloth, which are very soft.  I did a quick check, on some of the ingredients used, but ONLY the one.  There are many more ways to check ingredients.  The one came from "Ireadlabels", which lists "HIDDEN INGREDIENTS" of baby wipes.

Formaldehype- Carcinogen; Ethylene Oxide- Carcinogen; Hydroquinone- Carcinogen; Phthalates- Fragrance enhancer.  These were the four ingredients listed as Hidden Ingredients of 'some', but not all baby wipes.  You would have to look at the label of the brand you are using, to see if it does in fact have a list of ingredients. 

I personally would not use them, and my preferred method is good old soap and water, quick drying afterward.  If you are having success, and are happy with the results, then by all means, keep doing it.  Good luck.

I use Pampers and Luvs brand baby wipes. It appears that they do contain some questionable ingredients as you stated.

When you say soap and water, what brand/kind of soap do you recommend? How much water should it be diluted with? After wiping with the soapy water, should I wipe with a wet clean cloth or can I simply dry the piece?

[teledoc]

CW brings up a good point, and I guess it all depends on which brand of Baby Wipes you are using.  There are quite a few brands on the market, and all are manufactured to different standards, with different ingredients.  I would say that the basic wipe itself is a Micro-fiber cloth, which are very soft.  I did a quick check, on some of the ingredients used, but ONLY the one.  There are many more ways to check ingredients.  The one came from "Ireadlabels", which lists "HIDDEN INGREDIENTS" of baby wipes.

Formaldehype- Carcinogen; Ethylene Oxide- Carcinogen; Hydroquinone- Carcinogen; Phthalates- Fragrance enhancer.  These were the four ingredients listed as Hidden Ingredients of 'some', but not all baby wipes.  You would have to look at the label of the brand you are using, to see if it does in fact have a list of ingredients. 

I personally would not use them, and my preferred method is good old soap and water, quick drying afterward.  If you are having success, and are happy with the results, then by all means, keep doing it.  Good luck.

[Michael6268]

Ive been using them for years! Best method ive found. Durable, no harsh chemicals. Works great!  Haven't  witnessed any adverse effects...

[cwburfle]

First time I've heard of anybody using baby wipes to clean trains. It does not seem like a good idea to me. What are the wipes made from? What chemicals are they wetted with?

Let us know how you make out.

[temp0101]

I recently got interested and started collecting Lionel prewar trains (both O & standard gauge). I've purchased a number of pieces off of eBay that are nice but dirty.

I've reviewed the forum and saw that there are many recommendations for cleaning. I don't care to wax or polish, just remove the dirt.

No one has mentioned using baby wipes. So far they have worked very well on the painted surfaces. I wipe down a small section at a time then wipe with a microfiber cloth. I want to ensure that I am not harming and/or dulling the paint by using this method?