Help with Prewar American Flyer Train set ID

[tinplatacis]

Any chance you could post some photos of it?

[stebbycentral]

roundhouseman

I have had a long term interest in Lionel, and once owned many Lionel items, but have sold most of that as there are lots of people who collect that stuff. I always have thought of AF as 2-rail in S gauge as that it was it was when I was a kid. I didn't even know that AF made anything in O gauge until this came along last week.

Roundhouseman,

If you are interested in the history of the American Flyer Company prior to it's ownership by A. C. Gilbert may I suggest the following resource; American Flyer Classic Toy Trains by Gerry and Janet Souter.  It gives the complete history of the company from it's Chicago origins in the first decade of the 1900's, through it's sale in the 1930's to A. C. Gilbert when manufacturing was moved to New Haven, and up to the collapse of both Flyer and Lionel in the mid-1960.  It also has lots of great pictures of both pre-war and postwar trains. 

 

[Nationwidelines]

If you are serious about persuing American Flyer O gauge, you should check out the following thread:

PREWAR AMERICAN FLYER PICTURES - AN INVITATION

There are lots of pictures and good information about American Flyer O gauge in it.  It is somewhat of a long thread at this point, but has lots of good pictures and information.

 

NWL

[roundhouseman]

Thanks for the very nice response and all the information that you presented. I "presumed" that it was a set, just because of what I knew of the circumstances of how it was acquired. I have a copy of Greenberg's guide coming and am quite interested in seeing the info in that. We probably will never know it's history completely.

I have had a long term interest in Lionel, and once owned many Lionel items, but have sold most of that as there are lots of people who collect that stuff. I always have thought of AF as 2-rail in S gauge as that it was it was when I was a kid. I didn't even know that AF made anything in O gauge until this came along last week. 

As a matter of fact I am quite intrigued as to how this came to my attention. It belongs to a good friend and I can probably acquire it for myself fairly easily. Actually this seems more interesting to me than Lionel, as there is less of it..and likely fewer people collecting it. Maybe I will start with this and turn my former Lionel interest into collecting AF in O gauge. Again, thanks for the info.

[Nationwidelines]

The items you are describing are from 1938 as you are guessing.  That specific engine number 43226 and the 9 inch freight cars with the curly-cue couplers were only cataloged in 1938.  The coupler style changed in 1939 and that specific engine changed its number to 435 in 1939 and did not have the red painted windows or white stripe on the side. 

What you are describing for the engine and specific cars is not a cataloged set.  However, the engine and cars were offered as separate sale items and it may be that the engine/tender and cars were purchased as separate sale items.  Otherwise, it may have been a set put together by a retailer.  Since you do not have a set box with a number on it, it is very difficult to attribute this to being a specific set.

As for the catalog photos not showing the curly-cue couplers, often times the artwork showed stock photos, which sometimes were older photos that did not always match the specifics of the items being sold.

Since you have the 1938 and 1939 catalogs, this engine with different freight cars was cataloged only in 1938 as set #16.  In 1939 a similar engine, but renumbered 435 with a different tender was cataloged with freight cars as set #318.

Hope this helps. 

NWL

[roundhouseman]

I am new to the forum. I am basically an HO gauge guy and have been for 50 yrs plus....with a minor in O gauge, mostly Lionel.  I have never been interested in AF for some reason....until now.

My wifes best friend went to an estate sale last Thursday. She bought a box of model train stuff. She told me that she had bought a bunch of HO cars and one engine which was NOS. She also said she bought a box of "track". She showed it to me Saturday. The HO stuff was interesting then she brought in a box of three rail track. Ah ha, Lionel says I as I started taking track sections out of the box to see what was in the box. "The box is very heavy" she said. 

I take out a few pieces of track and can see, in the bottom, what looks like an O Scale tender, and next to it a very unfamiliar die cast locomotive. Had "American Flyer Lines" on both. It was engine #43226 and it's cast aluminum tender. Along with it were the green sandcar, the yellow and green large boxcar, the green log car and the large lighted caboose. There was just enough track to make an oval. There was also an AC Gilbert transformer and track connector and the wire. 

I did some basic research but need more info from someone with the expertise to know such things. The cars all have the "curly cue" couplers. I narrowed the engind down to 1938 as it has the hand painted red windows in the cab, the only year they were made as I understand. I knew the man who used to own this, he was a local school teacher. The late thirties date would match his childhood era. I strongly suspect that this was a set, bought for him as a boy and kept in that box for many years.

I have looked at the Gilbert Catalogs for both 1938 and 1939 and can find sets that have this engine and all of the cars that I have, plus a couple more. I cannot find a set that looks just exactly like what I have. In addition most pictures of AF O-gauge that I can see on the net do NOT have the "curly cue" couplers like these ones do. 

I do NOT have any pictures tonight but can try to take, and post, some n the near future if there is interest in seeing them. 

I am not sure what my wife's friend is going to do with them as she thought her small grandson might like to play with them, but I told her it is not really a childs toy at this moment for sure. She might sell, I just don't know. I have a very strong interest in history, including model trains and big trains too, and would like very much to know the history of these pieceds and when they were likely made. 

 

Any direction would be much appreciated.