Parts question for Lionel 229 &1664

[rrswede]

Attached are 3 photos of what I think is a 229 motor, drive, brush and bottom. 

1) Can you verify the motor is for a 229 or 1664?

2) Where can I view a parts diagram to determine what I need for the pickups?

Thanks, swede

 

 

 

[teledoc]

RRswede, The motor is none of the above!!!  It is actually a Postwar 1655 motor, and not Prewar at all.  The telltale sign it is the 1655 is the two gears (double reduction motor) on the geared side.  The 1655 is the only motor with that configuration.  The 1654 Postwar is one gear (single reduction), although outward appearances they look very similar, until you see the gearing, which tells them apart.

The 1664 motor from prewar would also have a hub on the rear set of wheels, which the Postwar motors doesn't have.  The hub sticks out from the wheel, for the linkage, by 1/8" to 1/4".  This motor you show, doesn't have that. The same style for the 1664 was also used on the last version of the 1688 torpedo loco.

To get the parts (even though it is Postwar), you need an OM-26 collector plate, with 1661-33 slide shoes, and the motor can be put back to running condition.  If you want to check out motor configurations, and parts, go to Olsen Toy Train Parts website.  When you go there, scroll to bottom of page, and look for the word "Library", enter the library, and check Postwar at the top, or go to the Prewar farther down the page.  A wealth of info on that site.

[teledoc]

You can turn it into a motor acceptable to a 229 or a 1664, by changing the two rear wheels.  Take off the back wheels, and replace them with Part 1664E-16 (Plain back wheel with hub), and 1664E-32 (Geared back wheel with hub), so that the hub can accept the side rods.  Don't worry about the number of teeth on the gear, as the number is 53 teeth, and the old and new both have 12 spokes.

Here is a link to what the 229 motor looks like from Olsen's site.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/b123/001103.pdf

As you can see, the 229 is a single gear reduction motor, and not double geared.

[rrswede]

Teledoc, thank you for the responses and details. I was sure it was prewar and when I went to the Olsen Library and searched for details on the 229 and 1664, the only thing that showed up after clicking on the the various pages for each was a screen saying "Hello". There must have been a computer problem at the time because it worked fine just a couple minutes ago.

I'm not sure what I will do with the motor. You have given me options but my decision will have to be based on cost to make it useable vs its value (not much).   

Thank you, again

swede 

[teledoc]

If you decide you want to use it in a Prewar body, the critical thing to check for is the placement of the SLOT for the E unit lever.  If you do get successful to log into Olsen's library, you can study the motors in depth.  The E unit number from the Prewar era, have been replaced with a Postwar number, and your motor has a 100-25 E unit.  The 1654/1655/1656 motors all are same basic cast, with the 1655 having two gears, versus one gear on the 1654/1656, if thinking Postwar use.  I would have to go back into Olsen's myself, to see which locos, use that style motor.  If the choice to go Prewar, the rear wheels need to be changed to 1664E-16 & 1664-31 that have the extende hub for the linkage.  

The same style of motor casting was also used on the last version of a 1688 torpedo from around 1938-39 vintage.  The 1688 last version has two holes in the left side of the body, to use this style motor.  The Lionel Torpedo of the 1588 wind up, 1688/1688E, and the 1668/1668E all used the same body casting, with a difference of the very first version of the 1688E which has an open firebox wall, where you can see the motor by looking into the cab.  That changed in 1937 thru 1941 to a closed cab with firebox wall.  I probably know more than anyone on the planet about these torpedoes, and every single variation.  I have been studying them for at least 6 months, and buying the various bodies, to know when it was made.  If you have a question about the 1588/1668/1688, I can answer it.

My main train forum that I check everyday is Model Train Forum, and there is quite a few threads on the 1668 & 1688 locos.  The ability to add photos in a simple way, is my main reason for being on that forum, most of the time.  This site makes it too difficult to add photos, but I do pop in from time to time to see if anything new is posted.

[rrswede]

Teledoc, thanks for the additional information. I do have an early 1668 and for fun will see if the 1655 motor would fit. It currently has a 1666 motor in it and I much prefer 6 drivers over 4. While going through the box of train stuff I bought, I did find a 1654 shell but no running gear. Will see if the motor fits in it, also.

Thanks again, swede