Hi! I'm new to the forms, I'm trying to get ideas.. I don't know if this is silly but I'm building a 5x12 O gauge layout 3rail!
I was wondering if it's okay to run all 16 gauge wiring for my bus/ bus feeders/ and accessories. Would it be a problem? I appreciate some feedback thank you everyone .
Mazz
Hi and welcome,
16 gauge should be fine for the size layout you are talking. If I may suggest develop a color code and follow it.
Jim
I wired my 8 by 12 layout with 16 gauge standed wire to the track. I had multiple blocks, and multiple feeders per block. Some people only add extra center rail feeders, I like to add both center and outside rail feeders. If you are building your layout with traditional "O" gauge track, I also recommend putting feeders on all three sides of any switches. Often there are poor electrical connections either at the pins or within the switch itself.
Lighter stuff for lights and accessories.
There are two important criteria for choosing the size of the wire between the transformer and the track: safety and voltage drop.
For safety, use wire that is able to carry the greatest current that the power supply can put out. If your overcurrent protection is 5 amperes (1033, for example), use 20 AWG, If it is 7 amperes, use 18 AWG. If it is 10 amperes (KW), use 16 AWG. If it is 15 amperes (Z or ZW), use 14 AWG. (But keep in mind that, if you run trains between tracks powered from more than one output terminal of the same transformer, you have no overcurrent protection except for what you may have added between the transformer and the track.)
For voltage drop, use whatever works for you, but not wire that is too small to be safe.
Bob Nelson
I have been to Home Depot and they don't carry 16 gauge wire in different colors, so I would suggest using a tie wrap of a certain color for each run of wire. I find that 14 gauge wire comes in many colors at H.D.
With my layout I am using 12 gauge wire and 16 gauge feeders to the track, I have a post war Lionel ZW & KW that I am using.
I like to thank everyone for your response ! I really appreciate all the support and feedback.....
Yes I was at Home Depot I bought 16 gauge black and I found some green also 16 gauge my transformer is also a kW and also a SW for my accessories
Agree with Philly, 14 gauge stranded is the way to go for power busses. Home Depot sells by the roll or foot in all 7 primary wire colors.
For the feeds I go an isle over and use the bi-color 18 guage speaker wire. Yes it's 'speaker' wire but it's basicly the same as lamp wire and holds up well and splices nicely to the 14 gauge stranded power lines using the blue tap-splices. Home depot by me stopped selling tap-splices but they are readily available on ebay.
Okay back to Home Depot! I bought 14 gauge stranded wire I hope I'm understanding this.. Now can my bus run be 14 gauge and my feeders be 16 gauge? Also can my accesories be run the same on 2 separate bus one 16 gauge hot other 16 gauge negative for my acccesories? Thank you please help with your feed back....
As far as safety is concerned, the wiring from the 10-ampere KW should be no smaller than 16 AWG and the wiring from the 7-ampere SW should be no smaller than 18 AWG. But there is nothing wrong with using heavier wire, and it may help you to avoid voltage drop in the wiring.
Another trick to reduce voltage drop is to use the outside rails of the track for the accessory return, with the track and accessory transformers wired out-of-phase with each other. The out-of-phase return currents then cancel each other to some degree, producing less voltage drop than if you ran separate accessory-return wires.
By the way, there is no electrical difference between solid and stranded wire. It's purely a matter of cost and which kind you prefer to work with.
If you add some external circuit breakers to your wiring system, then you won't have to worry about the wiring being able to carry the full load that the transformer is capable of producing. It is a good idea to use external circuit breakers anyway.
Eventually, the circuit is going to reach a point where the wiring is much lighter than anything discussed here. The wiring inside a Lionel locomotive is 22-24 gauge.
Lets say a steam locomotive derails on a layout powered by a KW without any external circuit protection, and the hand rail shorts out the track. In moments, that hand rail will be hot enough to cause a painfull burn.
There are many different external circuit protection solutions that have been discussed numerous times. I use Postwar Lionel #91 electromagnetic circuit breakers.
If you are going to run trains that have electronic circuit boards, then you should also add surge protection using TVS devices.
Mazz,
I think you already got all your answers on this other thread... Did we miss something? It is all about the same. But go by what Bob said about wire and you will be good.
http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/213224.aspx?page=2#2838914
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
Other thread was breakers! this is wiring ... thanks KRM
Thankyou everyone!
Mazz Other thread was breakers! this is wiring ... thanks KRM
One thing, breakers/wiring. Leads to the answer for the other. The issures run together.
Enjoy the hobby!
Mazz can my bus run be 14 gauge and my feeders be 16 gauge?
Yes, use the 14 for the bus. You can use 16 for the feeders but 18 is easier to find and work with. I don't think anything larger than 18 is needed it's just that 14 and 18 are commonly found in the stores.
Mazzcan my accesories be run the same on 2 separate bus one 16 gauge hot other 16 gauge negative for my acccesories?
Your trains should have a common ground return, That is usually the U lead from the transformer (KW/ZW).The ZW is good because you can use the inner controls, B and C, for accessories. I set my B output for a variable level for vibrating accessories that may need adjustment and use the C output fixed at 14v for lights or other fixed volatage accessories. Everything returns to U.
If you need to use multiple transformers be sure to phase them properly.
BTW, you should be wiring all the track busses with 7amp circuit breakers.
lionelsoniBy the way, there is no electrical difference between solid and stranded wire. It's purely a matter of cost and which kind you prefer to work with.
That is true. I personally have found the stranded easier to work with over the stiff solid wire.
Like to thank everyone for the feed back! all so kind
BigAl 956 Agree with Philly, 14 gauge stranded is the way to go for power busses. Home Depot sells by the roll or foot in all 7 primary wire colors. For the feeds I go an isle over and use the bi-color 18 guage speaker wire. Yes it's 'speaker' wire but it's basicly the same as lamp wire and holds up well and splices nicely to the 14 gauge stranded power lines using the blue tap-splices. Home depot by me stopped selling tap-splices but they are readily available on ebay.
The only difference with lamp wire or speaker wire is how it is labeled! You can use any wire as long as the wire gauge is correct for the voltage & amp load. Also no difference with solid verse stranded wire other then cost and how well it bends or don't bend.
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