KRM I am building a 200 series ALCO B-unit with twin motors like 8N has made and just wanted to know for sure what size is okay for internal wiring.
Fair enough. I did state in my post 22 was fine for internal wiring. Looks like you received more information than you needed.
cwburfle I don't think I've seen a postwar Lionel locomotive wired internally with anything heavier than 22 gauge wire. I haven't measured a piece of original wire, but the replacement e-unit wire that everybody sells is 24 gauge. I cannot recall seeing any Lionel locomotives with melted insulation, or any signs of discoloration of the insulation from the wires overheating. (Just soldering iron damage). So I think you will be safe using 22 gauge wire.
I don't think I've seen a postwar Lionel locomotive wired internally with anything heavier than 22 gauge wire. I haven't measured a piece of original wire, but the replacement e-unit wire that everybody sells is 24 gauge. I cannot recall seeing any Lionel locomotives with melted insulation, or any signs of discoloration of the insulation from the wires overheating. (Just soldering iron damage).
So I think you will be safe using 22 gauge wire.
Thanks 22 is what I am going with. I will let you know if it melts down.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
From the first post,,,,,,,,,"Does anyone know what the normal max amp draw for two Lionel 200 series ALCO motors tied to each other would be? Is 22 AWG big enough to feed them." Nothing about track power use or transformers .
Read first,,, ask a question if you don't understand and then get over it.
Go ahead and reply again, if you must have the last word. Maybe 10W - 30W motor oil will come up. Glad it seems my "internal wiring" still is working.
yeah but where did he even mention transformer he mention twin motors from the word go not transformer to track
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
I count 8 posts to get to the words "internal wiring". Maybe that's why you got replies that had "nothing to do with MY question."
Bob Nelson
rtraincollector Kevin as unelectrical as I'am, I seem to be the only one that understands your question your concern is that the teather between the A & B has a guage wire to handle the motors in the B-unit from the A unit which has the only E-unit.
Kevin as unelectrical as I'am, I seem to be the only one that understands your question your concern is that the teather between the A & B has a guage wire to handle the motors in the B-unit from the A unit which has the only E-unit.
Correct RT, Guess I will just wing it and find out on my own.
The question of wire size between the transformer and the track has been beaten to death. Some say 18 some say 14 maybe 16. Has nothing to do with MY question. Almost at the point to quit asking questions. Seems many answer whatever is on their minds without reading any of the original posts first just to pump up their own feathers, ambiguous or not..
Close this one for all I care.
I found the purpose of the original post to be ambiguous. Later posts cleared this up; but there was some advocacy of using rather small wire outside the locomotive. My post was a reply to that.
This thread original question has nothing to do with wire size between the transformer and the track.
There are two important criteria for choosing the size of the wire between the transformer and the track: safety and voltage drop.
For safety, use wire that is able to carry the greatest current that the power supply can put out. If your overcurrent protection is 4 amperes, 22 AWG is fine. If it is 7 amperes you should use 18 AWG. If it is 15 amperes, you should use 14 AWG. (Keep in mind that, if you run trains between tracks powered from more than one output terminal of the same transformer, you have no overcurrent protection except for what you may have added between the transformer and the track.)
For voltage drop, use whatever works for you, but not wire that is too small to be safe.
BigAl, What I am doing is this. I am building a 200 series ALCO B-unit with twin motors like 8N has made and just wanted to know for sure what size is okay for internal wiring. I will be using a 218 ALCO and run wires from it's motor to the twin motor B-unit's first motor and then feed the second B-unit motor off taht one. . So there will be 3 post war ALCO motors running off one e-unit. I think I will be fine with the motor to motor at 22 but may need to up the wire size from the 218 pick ups to the e-unit.
See this. http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/229627.aspx
I will not have another A-unit in the rear like 8n did just a front A and a Bunit.
If you are calculating for breaker or total current draw to a block you should take into account the other elements of the train such as lighted or operating cars.
I found a lighted passenger train pulled by dual motor F units would blow a circuit breaker less than 7 amps. As for feed wires, I reccomend 18 guage. 22 is OK for internal wiring inside the locomotive but may not handle feeds to the track. I recently rewired a portion of my layout I wired with 22 a while back and found the wires well melted.
Best practice for power feeds to a semi-permanent layout, I reccomend 14 gage stranded for power bus lines with 18 gage feeders to the track.
If you are only running newer dc motor engines then you can get away with small wire gage like Lionel sells but if you want to run larger pullmore motor engines I reccomend 14/18 gage wiring.
In my experience, 22 gauge wire works well for track wiring and accessories, providing the runs are not too long. I run a postwar ABA set of F3s pulling a 5 car aluminum passenger train, which is a pretty good load. The feed wires do not get warm at all. However, I have noticed that voltage drop is an issue with runs of more than 15-20 feet or so.
Thank you Rob, I am building a 200 series ALCO B-unit with twin motors like 8N has made and just wanted to know for sure. Sure do not want to wire it with 14 gauge wire.
It looks like you just answered your own question. The 22AWG is plenty.
"Looking" at a motor is not at all a reliable or empirical way of determining "Amp draw".
The two-motored 2333 in this video, at ~ 16.5 volts(full throttle), is drawing about 3.3 amps including the 2 bulbs in each of the cars.
Rob
Thanks Bob but that does not answer my question. I have been looking at twin motor postwar locomotives like the 2363 and their motors look as if they would pull more amps than the ALCO motors and seem to be wired with 22AWG. Why I asked if anyone knows what they draw. Just want to know if anyone knows how much they draw at max load and if it is #22 they use.
22 AWG is safe for 4 amperes, or 2 amperes per motor. How much a locomotive draws depends a lot on speed and the train it's pulling; but 2 amperes seems optimistic to me.
Does anyone know what the normal max amp draw for two Lionel 200 series ALCO motors tied to each other would be? Is 22 AWG big enough to feed them? Looks like what Lionel uses.
TKS
Kev.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month