Using dc instead of ac for Lionel accessories

[San Jose]

Greetings..............

Many of the Lionel accessories are pretty noisy, and if they're like the switches, they buzz, due to a/c.  I have successfully used a 16V dc power supply to quiet them down. 

I would like to do the same for the Lionel accessories for which dc might help.  My guess is that solenoids are one source that might benefit from using dc.  But before I go further with this thought, I would benefit from any experience/advice from you on the pros and cons as well as warnings.

Thanks and happy New Year,

Nino Yannoni from San Jose

 

 

[ADCX Rob]

Vibrotor based and vibration accessories(barrels, horses, cows eg.) won't work on DC.

Solenoids and electromagnets run hotter on DC than on AC at a given voltage setting.

[brianel027]

I run my layout on DC current and the barrel car works just fine on DC current. As does the revolving search light car and operating chase gondola, though I tend to keep the chase gondola and search light car on a secondary elevated track designated for operating cars, and that track gets normal AC current. The barrel cars (I have several) get regular satisfactory use with no ill effects I can see from running on DC current. Same for the operating milk car.

(As a side note, having a small layout limits the amount of operating accessories you can have. So I opted for an elevated side track where I can place stationary operating cars. In my thinking, a clever way to get some operating activity on the layout, utilizing the available "real estate." While the search light and chase gondolas do work on DC, I find these two do work better on AC current.) 

As for them running hotter, I'm not enough of an electrical expert. But since cars like the barrel car are a momentary operation, I haven't encountered any problems. Same for stationary accessories, like crossing gates which do operate without the buzz on DC current. But again, rather than being on a track trip or insulated rail, I have mine wired independently for push button operation. Meaning they aren't operating with every loop the train makes around the layout, so I haven't encountered any problems there either.

I do notice some of my postwar / MPC locos do get hot after a while on DC current. But they also did on AC too. I think they run smoother on DC current, and I tend to swap locos around the layout quite a bit, so if something is getting warm, I'll run something else.

Been running on DC current for about 20 years with no long term side effects I can gather. I started using DC as a accident when I inadvertantly blew a circuit board reverse on an 1990's vintage industrial switcher. I found by leaving the board out, it gave me more room for some added weight, which helps the engine. The engine now can run remarkly slow, which always seems to amaze vistors.

I've just found many of the lesser expensive locos, whether they have circuit board reverse units or not, run better and more smoothly on DC current. Of course it means I can't use any Railsounds or Trainsounds items, pre-LionChief... I've never tried, but Lionel clearly warns NOT to run these products on DC current.

Just my experience. There are drawbacks, but there are plusses too.

 

[rtraincollector]

I'm really surprised Bob Nelson hasn't comment on this as if I remember correctly he runs his layout on DC alsoand has for years. But not sure if he has any accessories or not. Or what if he does. 

[lionelsoni]

I've been traveling in Alaska; but I am stopped in Fairbanks for a while.

I don't exactly run the layout on DC; but my locomotives do have rectifiers upstream of the motors.  My type-Z transformers are modified to put out AC in which alternate half-cycles come from separate transformer controls.  Each locomotive can be configured to accept half-cycles of either polarity (half-wave rectifier) or both polarities (full-wave).

The main consideration, which has been mentioned, is that loads that involve electromagnets and other coils draw more current at any particular voltage, because of the lack of impedance from the coil inductance.  But this is the same as saying that they draw their normal current at a lower voltage.  The amount of heat depends on the (square of the) current; and the effect of magnetic devices like solenoids also depends on the current.  So the solution to heating problems, if any, is just to lower the voltage.

The only instance where I have had any trouble with heat is a pair of 623 switchers that I permanently wired in series, for better low-speed operation.  The e-unit gets double the normal voltage; and it draws even more current because that voltage is DC.  My solution was to wire in series with the e-unit coil a large incandescent lamp, whose bulb is entirely covered, to hide the light.

[alank]

Bob, are you up in Alaska to get away from the Texas heat? I would think the summer months of Texas, Alaska sounds like a dream. Enjoy your time, and if you get to Skagway, they have a great tourist railroad there, but thinking of it, it has probably got to be their summer to run...Happy New Year..

[lionelsoni]

I'm here to show my son and his Swedish girlfriend what an Alaskan winter is like and to visit friends.  The weather is not cooperating.  We rode the ARR from Anchorage to Fairbanks, but did not get to see Denali; and it's been rather warm in Fairbanks, about 20 F.  But there is a lot of gemuetlichkeit; and his girlfriend got to ride on a dogsled.

Did you hear about the 2014 WP&Y derailment that left the 1000 residents of Skagway to deal with 11000 tourists who had nothing to do?