O-Gauge Turnouts

[Anonymous]

I'm new to your forum and was hoping to get some opinions from fellow hobbyists. I recently built a modest O-gauge layout using the standard Lionel track and turnouts. It includes a left/right pair of 0-72 turnouts. These are brand new pieces and were in A-1 condition but I am having frequent derailing problems with them. Not with all engines/rolling stock, but enough to make me wonder if I haven't wasted my $$ on these turnouts. I have checked to make sure that the switches weren't in some mid-position. The layout also has an O-42 turnout (approx 4 years old) and it has had a few derailments as well, although not nearly as many as the 0-72's. The turnouts are very noisy as well and I've been impressed by some comments I've seen about Ross turnouts. Lots more $$ no doubt but if it solves the frustration I'd be interested. Any help/thoughts would be appreciated.

[daan]

What kind of engines do you drive? It could be that the engines can't handle the turnouts. I have some cheaper K-line engines that have problems with any switch or rail not completely in line, and that's something in the design of the engines (mostly the wheels in the front of the truck are not pushed hard enough to the tracks. It could be solved by springs pushing down the trucks on the front side).
If you have steamers with a boogie in front, the amount of play of the wheels in the boogie can derail the boogie, and with that the engine..
If you drive slowly across the switch, it should make clear what appens when you drive across it. 072 switches should not give that much troubles..

[ben10ben]

The new Lionel O72s are crap, and that's pretty much all there is to it. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Lionel should have never put those pieces on the market in the first place. I've heard good things about K-lines. They have the same profile, and should drop right in the same place. I believe that they are a little bit less expensive than the Lionels as well, something like $80 each rather than $100. See if you can get your money back on the Lionels, and buy K-lines.

[ben10ben]

K-line doesn't have a Standard O O72 turnout, but they do have one in their Super Snap line, which will mate with Standard O track just fine provided that the locking tabs are snipped off. Their O72s are $60 each.

[edited to remove long link. E-mail me if you would like it]

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the feedback.

I have a variety of engines Daan. Steamers and diesels from Lionel, MTH, Williams and Weaver. Most of my trials were with a small Williams diesel/dummy combo. It is normally a flawless performer and I was surprised to see the troubles it had.

I just think that the turnouts are causing far too much wheel/roller noise. There's nothing smooth about them at all. In fact there is a piece of metel (that serves as the mid rail in the switch) that has two exposed rivet heads. The rivets are fitted about as well as they could be but I question why they're there to begin with. The rollers strike them and make a very noticeable clatter. I also have a lighted caboose whose roller seems to have a problem with the mid rail assembly. It gets derailed regularly because the roller gets caught on the side of this mid rail piece which effectively pushes the caboose off the rails as it progresses through the turnout.

ben10ben,
My feeling (sadly) is that your assessment is dead-on. These new 0-72 turnouts just seem to be a crude design. Are you familiar with Lionel's older 0-72 units? Just wondering if they too had problems. It may be just a case where they took something that worked OK and then tried to cut their production costs but produced a "lemon". Not sure if I can get my $$ back or not. Although they're new, I bought them over a year ago. They were just sitting in their boxes until I had the time to build the layout. It's sad that this kind of $$ doesn't give a better product.

Another case of buyer beware I guess. I'll definitely do some homework before taking the next step and I'll be sure to check out those K-line units. Thanks for the tip.

[ben10ben]

Lionels prewar 711 turnouts are excellent, smooth, reliable pieces, but a bit pricey. If you can get a hold of a set of them, I think that you'll be a whole lot happier with them.

[Big_Boy_4005]

[#welcome] to the forum Daver. I think Ben might be right about those switches being bad. Over the last 12 months I have heard a number of complaints similar to yours.

I guess you have a couple of options. You could try to modify and repair the ones you have, or just write them off to experience and replace them. Atlas and Ross are also good options, but may require more work shimming and mating to O gauge track than the K-line. All are priced similarly.

If you want to try and fix them, it would be very helpful to create a plexiglass flat car. Simply cut a piece of plexiglass, and mount a pair of trucks to it. Using this will allow you to see where the problem areas are.

A proper switch should make little noise when the train passes through it. I suspect that the flangeways next to the frog are the source of the trouble. They may be too shallow for the modern fast angle wheels, and as such they cause the cars to bounce as they go through.

Using the flat car, apply some downward pressure, and slowly push it through the switch. You will both feel and see where the problem areas are. Try carving them away with a Dremel until the flat car passes through smoothly.

You may also find that the points are causing trouble. They may need a little shaving too.

Good luck.

[pennsy_fan]

well,
Im glad I read this post. I was thinking about getting some lionel 072 switches for a layout project. But I think I'll buy the k-line switches instead.It seems to me that Lionel also had problems with their redesign of O gauge switches in '96. Does anybody own the newest 022 switches? and, are they any good, or are they troublesome as well?

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all for the help.

(and glad you saw this before buying your turnouts, Pennsy_fan)

A number of folks have indicated Lionel 072 woes, so at least I seem to have lots of company to cry in my beer with.

I've been hearing nothing but good things about Ross equipment. I checked out their website and the authentic look of the wooden ties is terrific. I had been expecting a real case of sticker shock but when I contacted a dealer the $$ are comparable to what I paid for the Lionel turnouts (maybe I was overcharged for the Lionel).

No doubt I'll have a few other pieces to replace too (such as the decoupler track section) but if it gives me a good looking layout that works properly it'll be worth it. There's not much joy in showing friends an otherwise very nice layout only to have crash after crash.

I'm quite new to the hobby (and absolutely new to Ross products). A couple of questions come to mind:

1) Can the old Lionel spring-loaded pressure plate style accessory switches be used with the Ross track? I have a few Lionel crossing gates/lights as well as a semaphore that came with these switches. Not that I'm in love with them at all....a few of them tend to stick "on" once activated. I'm guessing there is a much better solution available.

2) I have seen several recommendations for Ross switches together with GarGraves track. Any reason for folks going GarGraves instead of Ross for track? Cost perhaps? Is the GarGraves track a visual match for the Ross switches? Unless the Ross track was actually inferior in quality I think I'd be strongly inclined to use it. My layout is not huge...maybe 60-70 feet of track...basically an 0-72 oval about 8' x 12' with an interior loop....so I think any cost difference would need to be considerable to make it an issue.

Thanks again for all the advise!

....REALLY wishing I found this forum years ago.....

Dave

[Big_Boy_4005]

Dave, you can use the pressure plates with any kind of track. The only problem is they are very fussy, and unreliable. Lionel's 153 IR is a much better solution, though it is more expensive. If you just need to turn things on and off, a simple insulated rail will do.

If I'm not mistaken Ross only makes rigid sectional track. It looks a lot like Gargraves, and matches the Ross switches. Gargraves is actually flexible, and can be bent to any shape. The cost is lower per foot with Gargraves.

[mpzpw3]

I have 7 of the new (purchased in the last 3 years) O-22 switches. I have absolutely no problems with them. I run postwar Lionel, mpc Lionel, modern Lionel, Williams, older K-line, and MTH PS-1 through them. I have one Williams engine (Berkshire) that seems to bang its way through one of them, but it never derails, and the other 4 williams engines and passenger cars have no problems. 3 of these switches are using the curved side of the turnout for mainlines. I am very impressed with these turnouts! The only derailments I ever experience are due to me bumping something. I have heard horror stories regarding the Lionel O-72 switches, though. I am thinking about replacing the Lionel O-22 switches with K-lines of the same footprint, just because I am using K-line track throughout. I would like to see a review of the new K-line switches.

[overall]

My Williams E-7 's have de-railment problems on the Lionel 072 switches. So do my K-Line E-8's. The Williams E-7's will negotiate 032 switches OK. Never figured that one out. Everything I have negotiates my Atlas 072 switches fine.

George

[Anonymous]

Well, I've been away from the forum for a while but as an update, I have installed the Ross turnouts and they work beautifully! And they're quiet! Such a difference from the Lionel units.
About the only problem I'm still working on is the best way to activate crossing gates, semaphores, etc. I used 153C contactors with the old Lionel track and I recently tried some MTH ITADs. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get reliable performance from the ITADs. The room lighting seemed to be a problem and also they seemed unable to detect dark railcars. I had seen a number of forum comments on infrared controllers and my experience certainly wasn't unique.
Basically, I'm now looking at somehow fitting the 153C contactors to the Ross track (the 'cradle' of the 153C seems to hold 2 of the Ross railway 'ties'). The 153C needs to be recessed into the cork track bed but it should be workable.
Anybody have any advise about using 153C's with Ross track? Better to use insulated rail sections?
As always, thanks for the help.

[Anonymous]

I've been using the latest Lionel 022 switches on my layout without any problems. In fact they work much better than the old postwar 022's that they replaced.

[Anonymous]

I wish I had a dollar for everyone of us who has gone through EXACTLY the same thing that you are experiencing with these Lionel O-72 turnouts. I bought ten of them for my layout before realizing that they are junk. The final straw was when my Lionel Reading 0-6-0 Docksider switcher flipped over while going through a Lionel turnout and a piece broke off the engine. That was it. I boxed them all back up and took them back for a store credit to the hobby shop.

I now use Ross switches. They work EXTREMELY well and they mate very nicely to my Lioenl O gauge tubular track. No problems at all with the Ross switches. They are smooth, quiet, reliable. Buy the Ross Ready line which includes the switch motor already attached.

Price is basically the same as the Lionel and they have a ton more selection of different types and options.

Some people use the Atlas switches and I'm not trying to start a falme war here, but for everyone who likes their Atlas switches and has no problems with them, there are at least two people who report dead spots on the switches where trains stall, etc. I wanted 100% reliability 100% of the time with 100% of my current and future engines, and with Ross switches I got 100%. So, not knocking anyone with Atlas switches, but they did not seem to be able to match the 100% reliability of Ross. To buy them, go to the Ross Custom Switches website and call the 1-800 number. Talk to them in person and place an order for 1 or 2 switches over the phone. Ask them about the mating pins that allow you to use them with your track. Try the switches when you get them, and then I am sure you will be calling back to order more!

[Anonymous]

Hello, These guys are right. I just got burned on 8- 072 switches. I`m going round and round with lionel tech support now. I have bought some poor product from lionel before. This is my last new product purchase from lionel. Not one thin dime from me.[:(!] Steve Prysok

[Anonymous]

I have a question about MTH Realtrax turnouts. About five years ago I trashed all my Lionel tubular track with switches, operating track, and the whole ball of wax and replaced it with RealTrax. Then I warehoused it for close to four years, and when I pulled it out one of the switches didn't work. Being fairly accomplished in the toy train line, I rebuilt it and it works fine, but in talking about it to a hobby shop owner around here, he commented that MTH turnouts had a lot of problems. When I was in there mucking around, the design looked unduly complex, but it was not something that I couldn't understand and fix. Anybody else got anything to report or opinionate on this?

[palallin]

Just what is the problem with the 072 switches?

[Anonymous]

The new front page story on these switches is that they
will not pass type 4 early couplers. The slide shoe hangs up every
time. That problem is the inside swivel rail is to high and sharp.
That I fixed with the good old dremel. The problem that started this
post was the 4 wheels of the steamer bind on the inside rail when
going against the switch not through the turn out. This happens
because the inside rail is also too high for the wheels to transfer
from the swivel rail to outside rail. Like I said before the 072
switches I bought in 2000 are great. The trains and cars pass
through great even the 4 wheel 800 cars. I guess it's just a sign of
poor craftsmanship. Remember these switches have the large logo on
them. Thanks for you input. Steven Prysok

[Anonymous]

To reply to Pallalin:
In my opinion, the main problem with the Lionel O-72 turnouts is simply a poor design. When you rolled a car by hand through the turnout you'd hear a lot of clatter. Nothing about them is smooth. The "frog" portion was held on with small pop rivets that were not recessed at all. As a result, any car with power rollers was REALLY noisy when the roller ran over these rivets. I also had at least one caboose whose power roller would always get pushed to the side somewhat by the frog and it would usually derail. I had a LOT of derailments with the Lionel O-72 turnouts.
It's hard to describe the operation of the Ross switches other than to say there's no comparison whatsoever. Hand roll a car through the switch and all you hear are the wheels. Ross obviously put a lot into the design and it shows. Ironically, I bought the Ross switches for less than the Lionel O-72's. As dan18425 mentions above, I bought the Ross ready units with the motors attached. They work perfectly and the realistic look of the railway ties is really a nice plus.
I can't say that there was a particular quality problem, assembly-wise, with the Lionels. At least not one that I noticed. The turnouts operated whenever the switch lever was thrown but with a flawed design the things are just useless from the get-go.
My guess is that Lionel wanted to get a cheaper design off the drawing board as soon as possible and into production. Well........back to the ol' drawing board boys!
It would be interesting to know if anybody associated with Lionel ever checks in on these discussions. Personally, I think it's such a shame that the Lionel name is seemingly being allowed to deteriorate. It would great if they somehow got their act together.

[GWayneG]

I am using RealTrax and 031 Switches. Train will not run all the way around track after it passes switch it loses current and switch chatters. I inscleted the track from switch but makes no driffents, What is wrong or draw me a plan to make it work show all wires and jumpers.
Thanks Mr. G. Wayne Gilbert at [e-mail]

[tjsprague]

In the time this topic was posted, my turnouts went from working just fine to now having problems.

I have two 72" and four 31" Lionel turnouts. All bought about 3 years ago. The track has been up for two months now, and as stated, they worked fine (a bit noisy though) but now locos and rolling stock really seems to bounce around the 72" switches causing derailments. Som locos can't bnack up through the switches no matter what.

OK, so now what am I asking different than daver? Please comment on the possible solution;

A. I've seen pre-war 72" tunrouts on eBay. I've heard they're better. Any experience out there?

B. Curtis switches. My track is Lionel tinplate, I actually like the look. Do Curtis switches work well in this envirenment? Are they a match in track height, etc? Do they have the non-derailing feature?

C. Sell it all and start new with Gargraves/Curtis. I just may do it.

I run everything from Pre and PostWar Lionel, Marx (separate loop with no turnouts) as well as some newer MTH, Williams and Lionel.

Thanks all.

Tim

[Anonymous]

Hello Tim.
I've also heard that the older Lionel O-72 turnouts are a lot better than the new ones. I agree with you in that I do like the nostalgic look of the Lionel track (my brother had a starter set given to him about 45 years ago) it was just that I had a few pieces that absolutely needed the O-72 curve. I had high hopes when I bought the Lionel O-72's (they cost a fortune) but it was a big disappointment.
I can't offer any feedback on your question B but I can tell you that the Ross track and turnouts have been perfect.
Best of luck,
Dave

[Anonymous]

Hello All: You would think after all these years the manufacturers could get it right. But that's what happen's when you leave it in the Engineering & product design Hand's. Steve