Lionel Nutcracker 4-4-0 RTR 6-30109 Christmas set engine issue.
I am working on a 4-4-0 from this set for my uncle. I was told it ran only a few minutes out of the box, NEW before it quit but it was already over three years old at that time. Well I pulled it apart and found there is binding issues with the Smoke piston in the cylinder locking up the engine. This has a metal cylinder with a metal piston driven by a plastic connecting plunger that holds the piston with one screw. The piston is only about a 1/8" deep and not square to the bore and has galled the piston. Well I re-aligned the piston to the bore and got it to run for about ½ hour and it is now binding up again. When I check the Lionel site for the two needed parts they are all listed as unavailable. Items listed as 55 & 56. Go figure Lionel. Does anyone know if there is an updated part to fix this?? This was made only four years ago and parts are unavailable??? My Rio Grand General has a different set up all together that will not interchange. My only other thing would be to just remove the plunger and piston so the unit will at least move.Have any of you ran across this and found a fix??I have decided that at Lionel they have NO idea what Quality Control is. JMHO!
http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?startRow=1&DOACTION=productPartFilter&PRODUCTID=dc06a52b-c036-44e4-8756-37531e15a1da
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
How does the smoke piston move? The parts view does not show any means to move the piston that can be seen.
The smoke plunger looks like it is activated by the hooked extension on one end. If that is so, the piston is possibly not being pushed on center, and is being pushed slightly off center, therefore the galling.
A picture of the setup of the smoke unit and driving mechanism would be nice.
As a guess right now, the smoke plunger probably needs to be redesigned.
Larry
TrainLarry The smoke plunger looks like it is activated by the hooked extension on one end. If that is so, the piston is possibly not being pushed on center, and is being pushed slightly off center, therefore the galling. As a guess right now, the smoke plunger probably needs to be redesigned.
Larry, that is how it operates and what is causing the problem. I don’t know what they were thinking when they designed it like that. It needs a piston with a deeper sleeve to help stay centered and allow it to flow in the bore. If you look the plunger is tapered to a point where it connects to the piston held on by a single screw in the center, so the skinny piston is bound to wobble with the plunger. Or as in this case the mounting surface (that there is hardly any of) on the plunger does not hold the piston perfectly square in the bore so it will scrape on the sides.A terrible design if I have ever seen one.
Right now it is back together because I thought I had straightened it out so it would work. It did for about 20 minutes till it bound up again. When I take it apart again I will take some pictures to post so you can get a better look. It is driven by a pushplate on the crosshead that is Item # 13 that rides on the main frame item #17 off the wheel motion.
Thanks for the description of how the smoke mechanism works.
It looks like the tapered end of the smoke plunger should be square to help keep the piston aligned in the bore, and the piston should be longer to keep it aligned better.
Back to the drawing board I guess...
Thanks Larry,
Well I have been working on that Lionel Nutcracker 4-4-0 and it has the right name!
I think I have it fixed. It has been running for an hour without a problem. I had to re-align and square the plunger to the smoke piston again, fix the headlight, and the short to the e-board. Not bad for something brand new. I will keep it for a week or so to see if it is going to hold up.
I have also have a question on a Marx pre-war 391 armature.
When I test for continuity across the three pick-ups for the brushes, one to the other and so there is none. All of the other armatures I tested have it between the pick-up plates. Not sure if that is the way it should be but seems to me it should.
What do you think?
Hope your smoke unit continues to work!
When testing an armature, you should get continuity between all 3 segments of the commutator.
Checking each commutator sement for continuity to the armature shaft should give you an open circuit.
If you do not get any continuity readings between commutator segments, then the winding(s) are open. Check for good solder connections on the wires to the commutator segments, and also where all 3 wires get tied together at the opposite ends of the windings.
Does the armature come out of an engine that does not run?
Thanks Larry, The armature does not get any continuity readings between commutator segments. Also checking each commutator sement for continuity to the armature shaft gives an open circuit. The motor does not run. At one point I had continuity readings between two commutator segments but now none. Must be bad. Thanks,
Armature rewinding is available here.
Thanks again Larry!
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month