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Lionel Wheel Issues

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Posted by TrainLarry on Sunday, March 29, 2015 3:56 PM

Affixing a loose wheel to the axle not only entails getting the wheel in quarter, but also insuring the wheel is perpendicular to the axle, or it will wobble.

Larry

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  • From: Hopewell, NY
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Sunday, March 29, 2015 2:37 PM

tinplatacis
It's a 1947 1666.

Assuming the wheel is loose and falls off... as long as you can affix the wheel to the axle while in quarter, you should be able to effect a repair. I've done it with CA, and seen it done with epoxies. The mating surfaces have to be as clean as possible.

Each of the six wheels is geared to the motor, so the side rods don't really transmit any power to the track(w/ Turbines & Berkshires, they do), they are just along for the ride.

Rob

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Posted by cwburfle on Sunday, March 29, 2015 4:59 AM

If you are considering purchasing an arbor press, be aware that you will also need wheel mounting cups. While there are a few cups that fit several wheels, most wheel cups are single purpose, and fit only one style wheel.

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Posted by Dobson on Sunday, March 29, 2015 4:27 AM
Odd timing of this post. I have a 1666 with the same issue and was considering buying a press because I am sure I am going to have this problem again in the future.
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Posted by tinplatacis on Friday, March 27, 2015 9:08 AM
It's a 1947 1666. I didn't notice the wheel problem until after it broke the siderod in half
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Posted by cwburfle on Friday, March 27, 2015 7:17 AM

If the wheel isn't too loose on the axle, it may not be necessary to upset the knurling to make it grab better. Just using a little locktite or high quality gap filling CA glue may be enough.
That way the grooves in the wheel that were made when it was originally pressed in place can be used to quarter the drivers. (Be certain to have the geared wheel in the right position to match the other drivers on its side too).

The big secret is to carefully clean away any grease / oil. I use mineral spirits.

Since its your own train, if the fix doesn't work, you can always do something more.
I have fixed a few of my own trains this way, but I would never do this sort of repair for someone else.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, March 27, 2015 7:11 AM

lionelsoni
The prototype turbine-locomotive wheels were quartered, so that the inner two driver axles could power the outer axles through the siderods.

That's interesting, because in 1946 Lionel's Turbine put a twist on that and had the outer two driver axles geared so they could power the inner axles through the siderods!

Subsequent to 1946, only the rear axles are geared and they power all three forward driver axles through the siderods.

Rob

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Posted by TrainLarry on Friday, March 27, 2015 12:57 AM

Pictures in an article by Westinghouse on the development of the S2 did not show the wheels being quartered, although it seems they were. Apologies. 

Larry

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:23 PM

The prototype turbine-locomotive wheels were quartered, so that the inner two driver axles could power the outer axles through the siderods.  If all the axles had been gear-driven, there would have been no need for side rods at all.  Here is a picture of one of the inner wheelsets:

And here are the gearbox and inner wheelsets:

In a model, it is not important that the cranks be exactly 90 degrees apart; but they should all be at the same angle.  An example of non-quartered drivers is the Lionel General.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by TrainLarry on Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:15 PM

A bit of trivia:

The Pennsylvania RR quartered all their steam locomotives opposite of other rail roads.

The Pennsy turbines did not have their wheels quartered, as they were not driven by cylinders.

Larry

 

 

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Posted by teledoc on Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:19 PM

You didn't specify which steamer you are working with, but the most important thing is what TrainLarry mentioned about "QUARTERING" the wheels properly.  If they are not quartered correctly, the linkage & wheels will bind up.  Think of the wheel as the face of a clock, and your quartering is either 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock on the left side, looking from back of engine, and the right side has linkage hole at 12.  The majority of steam engines have right side wheels at 12, and the left side at 3, or the left side lags the right.  Only the turbines use 12 right, 9 on the left, which is left side leads the right side.

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Posted by TRAINCAT on Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:58 PM

While Larry's way is the perfect solution there may be another way in many cases. Sometimes you can use a pair of side cutters and put a cross hatch pattern on the axle end and add a bit of loctite back CA glue as you press the wheel back on. The wheel press is the best way to get the wheel back on straight. Some use a vise but its a dicey move.

Roger

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Posted by TrainLarry on Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:55 PM

If the wheel came off the axle, then either the hole in the wheel is now too big, or the axle splines are worn. Either condition usually requires the replacement of the worn part(s), possibly both.

The wheel needs to be pressed on the axle in the proper position, and perpendicular to the axle. The wheel needs to be "quartered" properly while being pressed on, so that the connecting rods do not bind.

A wheel press with proper wheel cups is the easiest and best way to insure the wheel is pressed on properly. Some hobbyists have purchased inexpensive arbor presses and modified them to accept wheel cups, which can be purchased seperately.

Alternate ways to install the wheels are up to the individual, including the use of spacers in a vise. A problem to watch out for using this option is to insure the wheel is started straight on the axle the first time. If it goes on crooked, you may not be able to restart the wheel straight if the axle splines have cut into the wheel crooked. A new wheel may be needed again.

Bringing the locomotive chassis to a repair shop is another option.

Larry

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Lionel Wheel Issues
Posted by tinplatacis on Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:52 AM

How does one go about reattaching or replacing a wheel that has fallen of its axle on an early postwar lionel steamer?

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