Need traction for Burro Crane

[Brad T.]

I am new to this forum and looking for advice.  I have owned a Lionel 3360 Operating Burro Crane since childhood.  It was always a favorite but frustrated me because it couldn't climb a hill.  (The Lionel trestle set was a pretty steep grade and this early model does not have traction tires.) Now, fifty years later, my basement layout is finished and the Burro Crane is returning to service.  It still runs like a champion, but cannot climb a grade.  None of the long grades on my current layout exceed a 2% climb.  I keep my track and equipment clean, which only adds to the slippage on hills.  Any suggestions other than adding a "helper engine", which I did as a kid?           

[cwburfle]

Are you saying the 3360 Burro Crane won't propel itself up the grade, or that the Burro Crane won't pull cars up the grade?
If it's with cars, what are you trying to pull?

The postwar Burro Crane was not designed to pull much, something like one or two light gondolas.

Being familar with the mechanism, I'd say don't try to do anything to increase it's pulling capacity. There is only so much the mechanism will take.

The Modern era burro cranes are basically of the same design. At least some of these Burro cranes have tire traction.  You might want to consider getting one of them to run on your layout. In my area, the can be had for fifty or sixty dollars.

[Brad T.]

Thanks for the note.  My goal is just to get the Burro Crane up the incline.  Pulling an empty gondola would be great, but not important at this point. 

The piece runs nicely and has plenty of power on flat track.  The smooth wheels and the clean track just conspire against me on hills.  Traction tires seem to be the obvious solution; I am hoping someone out there has a solution I have overlooked.

And finally, I can't part with this crane.  Just too many fond memories of my dad wrapped up in this piece.  Perhaps buying a new one is the way I should go and place this one, along with the memories, on a display shelf.    

[KRM]

I can't see much help here myself. Mine I keep on a flat MOW run with bump stops on both ends. It has a Scrap metal Gondola on one end and Work Caboose  on the other and seems to do okay, but up a hill,,I bet not.

[Brad T.]

Thanks for the insight.  A flat MOW run with bump stops is a good idea.  Just wish I had thought of that before laying all my track.  Maybe a little "reconstruction" is in my future? 

[rrswede]

Brad, I have attached a post from 2009 that describes material and a application method for a substitute to traction tires. In 2013, I followed the instructions as a substitute for traction tires on a Diesel Passenger Engine and the unit continues to function perfectly; no delamination and no slippage. I don't know the grade on my layout but it is quite little. I know the wheel on a traction tired device is slotted for the tire, but suspect a thin application of the silicone sealant, carefully applied to a smooth surfaced wheel would provide the "fix" you are seeking. May be worth a try! Good Luck.

Swede

Replacing engine tires with Silicone.

The product you want for this project is Silicone Sealant, not caulk.  The brand I have is Loctite, but you may find other manufacturer's such as G.E..

First arrange to have a transformer at your workbench, a soft cradle for your engine to be set in upside down, and some wires with alligator clips, so that you can connect your engine to the transformer and run it slowly while it is upside down. Before you do this, if it is a command engine, turn down the sound, and turn off the smoke unit, while you have it on the track.  It is also a good idea to remove the brakes as they are close to the wheel and can get smeared with the silicone.

With the engine upside down in the cradle, get the wheels turning slowly, and clean the tire groove with your favorite solvent.  I use denatured alcohol and Q-Tips.  Caution: if you use a Q-Tip, keep it away from the gears near the wheels.  If you touch a Q-Tip to the gears it will pull the fibers into the gears and jamb the engine to a stop quickly.  If this happens you have to remove the engine's shell and turn the flywheel backwards by hand to get the fibers out.

Once the tire groove is clean, and dry, squeeze a small amount of the Silicone into the groove while the wheel is turning.  Next, I prefer to use a squared off Popsicle stick, or tongue depressor, like a  putty knife action to press the silicone into the groove and remove the excess. Then quit and let it dry overnight.  It doesn't have to be perfectly neat at this point.

Next day, use an Xacto knife to trim off any excess rubber while the wheel is turning, or start and stop it if it is easier for you.

Viola!  You're done.

Dennis Bracey

4/13/09

 

[Brad T.]

Thanks, rrswede.  This burro crane does not have the small groove designed to hold a traction tire, but perhaps I can get a small bead of Silicone Sealant to adhere to the wheel.  If I carefully smooth it out and gingerly place it on the track, it just might work.  Passing through switches might eventually tear up the silicone bead however.  Then again, isn't there an old saying, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."?  I'm  gonna give it a try.  Thanks :)  

[irontooth]

Have you tried Bullfrog snot, it has helped me on My American Flyers that do not have Pullmor?

Irontooth

[Brad T.]

Thanks, Irontooth.  I'm not familiar with Bullfrog snot but took the time to do some research and read a lot of reviews.  For the cost, I am not convinced it will do the trick for O Gauge pulling/traction requirements.

I also tried rrswede's suggestion above using silicone sealer.  The application process went smoothly, but once the sealer was cured (48 hours), the final result was more along the lines of smooth vinyl rather than "grippy" rubber tires.

I have some extra space on the front edge of my layout so I think I'll follow KRM's lead and build a flat MOW run in this area.  The kids can see the action up close and I can quit worrying about climbing hills.  This little burro crane works like a charm on flat track.

This is my first post; thanks to everyone for your useful suggestions.

Brad T.

[jprampolla]

Hi Brad,

       I did a helper loco with an RMT Beep and a homemade styrene shell that is supposed to resemble a boxcar. It has good pulling and climbing ability.  I have used it with the handcar when I want the illusion that the handcar is pulling a train.

 

       In the video above, now over 2 years old, the Beep is covered by the incomplete styrene shell, but notice its great pulling power at moderate speed.

     Hope this helps!

Take care, Joe.

 

 

[Brad T.]

Joe,

This is an absolutely terrific idea!  Your suggestion goes way beyond my traction problems with the burro crane; I can think of a dozen different and clever ways to put your idea in to action.  Thanks a million! 

Brad T. 

[jprampolla]

Hi Brad T,

       If I were to do it again, I would go with a small diesel loco with 2 powered trucks.  The Beep (4 wheels) is great, but I had an issue with shorting (not dropping out) on some older, less than perfect Lionel switches/turnouts.  (The center rollers would seem to make contact with that widened center rail and an outside rail on that moving piece of the switch/turnout.)  Seems that a quick-acting circuit breaker in a newer transformer exacerbates the issue.  But I still love the Beeps!  The Beep as a helper loco also prevents a train from gathering too much speed on a decline.   Was my pleasure to share this idea!!!!

    Take care, Joe.   

 

[Brad T.]

Thanks for the follow-up note, Joe.  I was thinking of adding a gondola w/ junk to my burro crane and then follow that up with a "powered" bobber caboose.  All of my switches are Gargraves; no Lionel to deal with.  You also got me thinking about taking a small K-line engine and "stretching" the trucks out to fit a flatcar.  The electronics would then be hidden inside a large crate or stack of wood, etc. on the flatcar.  Bottom line, ya got me headed in the right direction.  Thanks.

Brad T.      

[jprampolla]

Hi Brad T,

       The bobber caboose is my favorite type of caboose, but I think it would only conceal one power-truck.   I like the shorty look, so I have shortened a few cars, so far never stretched one.  That Beep would make a nice open gondola with a fake load to cover the guts and circuit board.  The less bulky the helper loco looks, the better the illusion.  That was my second choice, but the boxcar shell seemed quicker/easier.  I still need to do some shading with a wash to break up the 'flat' look of the that homemade shell.  Gook Luck!

Take care, Joe.

          Wishing Everyone a Blessed and Happy New Year!!!