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Using MTH 042 curves with 90 deg. crossover.

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  • Member since
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  • From: HUNTINGTON, NY
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Posted by BiiV on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 7:19 PM

Again Thanks to both Rob's for your imput. RobADCX your idea of puting the Infra Sensors at the Cross over might be a good way to go without all of the extra switches and relays. I need to research more on that idea.. Rob412 your ideas about intergrating the two sections opens up a lot more options.

What I am going to do now, is get the 4x12.5 layout on the 4x16 table running with at least one train, put some scenery and Buildings etc. and have something the grandkids will enjoy for Christmas. Then I will speed up the construction after New Year's 2015.

Bill

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Posted by Rob412 on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 4:15 PM

Bill   How about an O-42 loop on the outside with an inside loop of O-31 but adding 4 switches to make it a figure 8 as well.  That way you get the Hudson running plus 2 train operation and the figure 8 plan you want. Also if your making an L shape you could extend the O-42 loop around the 4x8 for more operating possibilities.  A  second loop or figure 8 could be installed on that 4x8 extension giving you 3 train operation without block controls at all.   Then if you want to mix it up you could interconnect the loops to have even more variety of operation.   

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 2:33 PM

BiiV

Just an FYI. The Figure 8 design I used from you is the 4'x12.5' with the crossover in the middle. So both loops are of equal size. I guess that does not change anything all that much. Or does it?

As long as both trains fit in one loop you are OK, but the visual effect will be worse as the two trains will need to be even closer with the loop containing the trigger rail.

If you have the means to purchase all of the equipment to control the trains with infrared controls, the principal is the same.

You may actually be able to just let the trains run if you set up the infrared controls to instead guard the crossing rather than hold and start the waiting train(it's extremely involved with relays). In that case, it could be arranged to start the train waiting at the crossing as soon as the crossing is clear, and you would not have to be as concerned with the length of your trains(although both would still need to fit within each loop at the same time).

Rob

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Posted by BiiV on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:09 PM

Just an FYI. The Figure 8 design I used from you is the 4'x12.5' with the crossover in the middle. So both loops are of equal size. I guess that does not change anything all that much. Or does it?

What are your thoughts about Infrared sensors controlling the two trains on the same track?

My first layout a 4x8 consisted of two ovals. One inside each other. The inner oval had two switches to cross from one side to the other. To me it was just basicaly two trains running in circles. I thought the figure 8 with two trains operating would give me a little more action. My plan is to butt the 4x12.5 section up to a 4x8 to form a L shaped layout. The 4x8 being planned as the NYC section of the layout. Right now I do not have any plans of the two sections interchanging with each other.

Thanks again

Bill

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, December 15, 2014 9:59 PM

Two train operation is difficult on a small layout with a crossing, you would need to stage the first train at the crossing and set up a control block and a stop block and a relay to hold that train until the 2nd train clears the crossing.

You can use an automatic block control system that has been used by Lionel operators for over 70 years:

You would need two blocks for your layout, the small loop is in one block, leading in to the larger loop where the train clears the crossing, hits the trigger rail(& relay), and starts the train waiting at the crossing to go into the small loop.  When that train gets to the crossing, it stops in the de-energized stop block, and the cycle is repeated. This means on a small layout, there is lots of just one train running, and when they are both running, it is right on the tail of each other.

Rob

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Posted by BiiV on Monday, December 15, 2014 6:49 PM

Hi Rob. I have been busy doing different things. I finished the 4'x12.5' figure 8. My Wiiliams Hudson runs around fine. I would like to run two trains on that Figure 8. I've read a lots of articles on using blocks to operate two trains. Where do you recomend puting the blocks.  What is the best way of doing this. I have heard about switches, relays. DCC. My power source are all conventional. I have one Lionel KW. and several Lionel 80 watt transformers. What do you recommend for me to get started?

Bill

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, December 1, 2014 7:58 PM

No sweat - these were all drawn in SCARM, though, with my input only.

Rob

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Posted by WRGMILW on Sunday, November 30, 2014 11:03 PM

TO ADCX ROB

THANKS ALSO FROM ANOTHER Bill

Your drawings maybe helping me as well !

Bill in Milwaukee/WAUWATOSA

CHARTER MEMBER OF THE MILWAUKEE FALLEN FLAG MODEL TRAIN CLUB .  I COLLECT HO, N , O-3rail & On30  Trains & run them !  I Use KATO HO & N scale Track . I also Use Lionel Fast Track !   I change track layouts Often !  

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, November 28, 2014 5:53 PM

With a whole bunch of the 3.5" & 4.5" pieces, you can tighten it up a little if you want:

Rob

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Posted by BiiV on Friday, November 28, 2014 2:46 PM

Your right. before I came back to this forum, I tried removing the 5.5" section of track. When I tried to mate it up at the crossover it would not line up, A lesson well learned. I will now complete the other side and go from there. The final product will be the 4'x 12.5' you recommended. Thanks again for your help.

Bill

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, November 28, 2014 1:46 PM

BiiV
If I wanted to make the 4' width, smaller (less than 4') where would I remove track and which ones would you recommend me to remove.?

You can't. This is as small as it gets staying with stock sections of MTH RealTrax. If you want to custom cut at least four straight sections, you can cut it down by 5.5" for the smallest figure 8 possible.

Rob

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Posted by BiiV on Friday, November 28, 2014 9:01 AM

Hi Rob, With your help I have really gained a lot of knowledge about track planning. While studying your layout designs I have come up with I another thought. If I wanted to make the 4' width, smaller (less than 4') where would I remove track and which ones would you recommend me to remove.?

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Posted by BiiV on Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:26 PM

Thanks Rob. The 4'x12.5' might be fine. If I need a little more I can stretch it to 14' like you suggested. I will get back to you when it is completed.

Bill

 

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:40 PM

And here it is stretched to 14':

Rob

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:37 PM

BiiV

 I am assuming that your imput was based on the table size I mentioned in my first post. Is that correct? The other question is...In my haste to send the post ASAP. I realize now that the table dimensions I gave are off. The correct table size is 4'x14'.

This one is 4' x 12.5', just extend the straight sections to the desired length. It does not have to be symmetrical - you can position the actual crossing to the left or right of the center of the board/layout by varying the number of straight sections along the top and bottom. The scale, if you look at the "dots" on the diagram, is a 5" grid.

Here is the same layout with the crossing moved left:

Rob

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Posted by BiiV on Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:15 AM

Wow I am really impressed. I want to thank both of the two Rob's that responded. I have just two more brief questions. I am assuming that your imput was based on the table size I mentioned in my first post. Is that correct? The other question is...In my haste to send the post ASAP. I realize now that the table dimensions I gave are off. The correct table size is 4'x14'. I am not sure if it was a typo or whatever. So I am off by 2 feet. Will these layout's fit the 4'x14'l layout or do I need to remove some of the 10 inch straights at the 90 deg. crossover?

Thanks

Bill

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:28 PM

Rob

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:19 PM

Rob

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:12 PM

Rob

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Posted by Rob412 on Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:05 PM
0-42 curves are 30 degrees per section while 0-31 are 45 degrees per section. Get 4 half curves of 0-42 as this will put your tracks at 90 deg. Angles. So you would need 16 0-42 curves and 4 0-42 half curves minimum. Your straights will depend on how big you want the loops to be.
  • Member since
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Using MTH 042 curves with 90 deg. crossover.
Posted by BiiV on Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:16 PM

Hi Everyone. This is my first post to this forum. So bear with me please. I started making a figure 8 on a 4'x16' table. I started using MTH 031 curves and other size MTH tracks as fillers. There was a few trial and errors, but I finished with little difficulty. Then I realized there was going to be a problem. I would not be able to run my Willams 773 Hudson because the min. curve was 042. I started over again and I had much difficulty with making the figure 8. One side of it would be fine, when I tried to make the other side no matter what track I used I could not complete it. I have tried some of the free track planning software online, but I was having difficulty.

So my question is, Can I construct a Figure 8 using 042 curves with a 90deg. crossover. If so, does someone on this forum have the means to use some software and let me know what inventory of MTH track I would need to complete this. A diagram would be helpful as well. I am still a novice in Model railroading and I would like to save some time and have a functional layout for my grandkids by Christmas.

Thanks to all in advance.

Bill

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