unmarked lionel engine

[Anonymous]

my boss has a set that he recieved as a child--he asked me to evaluate it and even tho' i am not a lionel person (HO-sorry)--i looked at it and determined that it was a Berkshire style 2-8-4 passenger set with the cars having names such as silver cloud -- something else cloud --something else else cloud--etc. ------my problem was that the engine had no markings (other than lionel)--as per UP or ATSF or anything other that a number.. can anyone tell me why that is so??? I did ask my boss whether or not he was sure that the engine acutally went with the train set ---he said yes --that he had it since his chilhood. reply if you wi***o
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[ben10ben]

Lionel generally marked their steam engines only with a number on the shell and a "Lionel Lines" on the tender, although a few Pennsylvania and NYC tenders were made, as well as a few others, I'm sure. I believe that this was done so that they could have generic train set engines. Diesels were almost always painted for at least one road, although not always one to match the rest of the cars in the set.

[lionelsoni]

The "Silver Whatevers" were made between 1952 and 1959 or 1960. Does the locomotive have a number? I can't tell from your description. The 736 Berkshire was made from 1950 to 1968 (726RR in 1952). The locomotive's number should be on the cab under the windows. Perhaps it has been repainted. The tender should say "Lionel Lines", except "Pennsylvania" in 1960. Look on the bottom of the tender for its model number stamped in white. My 1950, 1952, 1954, and 1955 catalogs show the Berkshire pulling only freight trains; but it might have pulled passenger cars in other years. Or the locomotive and cars could have been bought individually and given to him as a set.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

The "Silver Whatevers" were made between 1952 and 1959 or 1960. Does the locomotive have a number? I can't tell from your description. The 736 Berkshire was made from 1950 to 1968 (726RR in 1952). The locomotive's number should be on the cab under the windows. Perhaps it has been repainted. The tender should say "Lionel Lines", except "Pennsylvania" in 1960. Look on the bottom of the tender for its model number stamped in white. My 1950, 1952, 1954, and 1955 catalogs show the Berkshire pulling only freight trains; but it might have pulled passenger cars in other years. Or the locomotive and cars could have been bought individually and given to him as a set.

To take this one step further, the only Berkshire that did come with passenger cars was the 726. However, those were "Madison" cars, heavyweights, not streamline aluminum.

By the way, the "Silvers" are Range, Dawn, Cloud, and Bluff.

2531observation Silver Dawn
2532 vista dome Silver Range
2533 pullman Silver cloud
2534 pullman Silver Bluff
2530 matching REA baggage car

[daan]

In my opinion the aluminium silver line passenger cars are much too big to fit with postwar berkshires. The steamlocomotives lionel made where small compared to the F3's which were made to pull these cars.
The correct locomotive in my opinion to haul the silverline is an F3, and most likely a 2333,2343 or 2353 being Santa Fe's. The same aluminium cars where also used for the alaska railroad and some more, but those where named differently.
Silver cloud, silver bluff, silver dawn and silver range is as far as I know the train for the Santa Fe.

[3railguy]

Lionel did offer a 646 Hudson steamer pulling 3 aluminum pass cars in 1954. A 646 Hudson used the Berkshire boiler on a hudson chassis.

[Anonymous]

Whether it is the 726 or 736 berkshire it is one of the best steam engines Lionel built. It wouldn't have been difficult to purchase the engine separately and passenger cars as individual pieces at the time these trains were produced. The locomotive definitely has either been repainted or someone has taken the time to remove the lettering and numbers from the engine and tender, something that is not difficult to do. The berkshires were very well engineered locomotives and would run forever with little or no maintenance. If you could ascertain whether the engine has a tender with six wheel trucks and handrails and steps on all four corners, and nickel trimmed drivers on the engine you would be able to identify the engine as the 726. The later 736 engine did away with the nicer tender and some of the engine trim. The aluminum passenger cars were the premier cars of Lionel during the early 50's. F-3 diesel sets were popular engines pulling these cars, but they came with other locos, and were available as individual cars from the larger hobby shops. Dry transfer decals are available to letter the steam engine back to original form.

Evaluating these trains would be difficult without knowing the condition of the engine and cars. There is a huge difference in price between typically average trains that have had use and minor abuse versus the same trains in excellent or better condition. You will find the 726 and 736 engines on eBay frequently and can get a general idea on pricing. Same thing with the passenger cars.

[Anonymous]

As far as values go, I've got my price guide here and this is what it says:

726 Berkshire: $290 good condition, $420 excellent condition
736 Berkshire: $295 good, $435 excellent
2530 baggage car: If it has smaller doors, it's worth $100 good, $180 excellent and if it has larger doors, it's worth $280 good, $455 excellent
Here is a picture of the small-door version. I couldn't find one of the large-door version, but it's rarer, so chances are your boss doesn't have it.

2531 Silver Dawn observation: $65 good, $125 excellent
2532 Silver Range dome car: $55 good, $95 excellent
2533 Silver Cloud pullman car: $60 good, $110 excellent
2534 Silver Bluff pullman car: $60 good, $115 excellent