Lionel MPC 8030 IC GP9 questions

[Daddyo58]

Thanks for the advice. Will give it a shot and hopefully have Dad running again. Much appreciated advice!

[ADCX Rob]

Daddyo58

I have an old MAR and an Allstate. The Allstate hook up terminals says to track 15 amps max for DC and to accessories 18 volts AC...

Those are both AC, both Marx transformers, and are typically 45-50 watts and will run the 8030 perfectly as they very closely match the Lionel 4050 transformers from the early 1970's.

[Daddyo58]

Seems the other transformers I have might be low as well then. I have an old MAR and an Allstate. The Allstate hook up terminals says to track 15 amps max for DC and to accessories 18 volts AC. The MAterminals show to track 0-14 volts and to accessories AC 15 volts.

I am guessing either of these would be underpowered. What can I do to get his locomotive running without breaking the bank?

[Daddyo58]

Thanks for that philo426. I do have an old MAR CAT No 6049 transformer that puts out 14 volts DC and 15 volts AC it shows on the hook ups that DC to track and AC to accessories.

The other one I have  is an old Allstate Cat No 6030 rates at 4-18 volts DC and 18 volts AC also says 20 volt amps on the face of the unit. The side says to track 15 amps max DC and to accessories 18 volts AC 

Am concerned with accidently burning up the motor on the locomotive so have been pretty timid with it.  Should I try it or not?

[ADCX Rob]

ADCX Rob

 

 

ADCX Rob

 

 

bobhwalker

...I converted all to DC operation with a bridge rectifier cross wired to the Pulmor universal motor...

 

 

Could you describe/draw the circuit you used?

 

 

Anything?

 

 

Bueller?

[ADCX Rob]

Daddyo58

Does this train run on DC power or should I be hooking it up to an AC transformer?

AC or DC. The problem with your DC power supply is that it is VERY low power... probably between 8-15 watts, and while it might run OK on the bench, the smallest transformer cataloged when the 8030 came out was 50 watts.

[philo426]

Runs on AC power so it should be fine.

[Daddyo58]

My Dad just recently purchased an O gauge Illinois Central 8030 on eBay and I am trying to figure out he can run it on his Lionel Fast Track. He currently runs a Lionel steam engine on it with AC power.  My Dad is 87 so I am trying to get him on track. I run an HO layout so O gauge is not what I am familiar with. I managed to hook up to it with my HO MRC HO transformer under DC power directlty to the locomotive using alligator clips to get it running after cleaning and lubrication. Ran for 30 minutes on my bench without issue. However, once I connect DC to the track it will not run. I attached dropper to the same attachment locations the AC uses. Positive on the center rail and negative on the outside rail. But the train does not respond to voltage. What am I missing here, I get the train to move if I attach the alligator clips to the rails directly but not with the jumpers. Does this train run on DC power or should I be hooking it up to an AC transformer? Really a mystery to me. Hope I can get some assistance for Dad.

[lionelsoni]

That one's new to me.  But there are a lot of ways to do it.  For example, it doesn't matter whether you put the bridge rectifier on the brushes or on the field winding, as long as you don't put one on each.  And it's optional whether you leave the e-unit in place and connected but shut off, or wire around it.

Leaving the e-unit operational actually has a benefit:  Two-rail DC locomotives have the useful property that, if you pick up a northbound locomotive, turn it end-for-end, and put it back down on the track, it continues to go north.  This allows you to run (particularly) Diesels in haphazard orientations, just like the prototypes.  Three-rail locomotives lack this feature, but you can turn on the retained e-unit and step it to the opposite direction to get all the power synchronized. 

[bobhwalker]

The bridge rectifier circuit described by Bob Nelson is the preferred circuit for converting AC motors to DC polarity sensitive direction and is the way all of my GP9's are wired. However, there is a very old fashioned way to do it which also works: a crosswired DPDT relay which reverses the brushes with the coil fed by a reverse connected diode so that it pulls up only on negative DC picked up from the track. I did this once back in the 60's, but went with the rectifier circuit across the board as a better solution. 

[lionelsoni]

A simple way to do it is to insert a bridge rectifier upstream of the motor brushes:  Detach the wires from the brushes and connect those wires instead to the ~ terminals of the bridge rectifier.  Connect the + and - terminals of the bridge rectifier to the brush terminals.  If the locomotive runs in the direction opposite to what you want, swap the + and - connections.

I should add that, if you don't need the DC-operation feature of reversing direction by reversing voltage polarity, you don't need to modify the locomotive at all--a universal motor will run just fine on DC.

[ADCX Rob]

ADCX Rob

 

 

bobhwalker

...I converted all to DC operation with a bridge rectifier cross wired to the Pulmor universal motor...

 

 

Could you describe/draw the circuit you used?

Anything?

[ADCX Rob]

bobhwalker

...I converted all to DC operation with a bridge rectifier cross wired to the Pulmor universal motor...

Could you describe/draw the circuit you used?

[railroaded]

Anyone remember the issue that tune up article was in?

[bobhwalker]

I have six IC GP-7/9's of various vintages and one dummy unit. I converted all to DC operation with a bridge rectifier cross wired to the Pulmor universal motor. They are all running smoothly.

[JTrains]

brianel027

CTT did a great article years ago on "tuning up" MPC-era diesels.

Does anyone happen to know the issue this was in?   I really would like to try and get my #8030 pulling better - the boy has now taken a shine to it.

[cwburfle]

When these engines were originally released, there were several companies that were converting them to magentraction. Perhaps you can find a converted one.

[lionelsoni]

You don't need an electronic e-unit to use DC motors, just a rectifier.

[ChiefEagles]

I have two of the CN MPC geeps. They run great and have miles on them. Kept them lubed. I did add lead bars to weight them down. Also took the fuel tanks off and filled them with weights. Pulls good. Did have them lashed together using only one E unit. Separated them and now run as single units. If I can find some good running Geeps or UBoats, I'll buy them. I repaint the shells CN or NS. Enjoy.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I have one too, but what I did was convert it to the can motor trucks. The problem with that is you will need an electronic E-unit for it to handle the DC can motors. In my case I was already running DC on my tracks, so it was a logical choice. I've never found magnatraction to be that great anyway.

Like the others have said, do try to stick to the modern cars for best results.

[daan]

Have one too, but mine had problems with traction tires coming loose. I've glued them on the wheels. In my opinion they are too light, but mine has been dismatelled before I bought it, so the possible weight could have been removed. I put about 300 grams of lead in it, and now it runs fine. The gears do only show slight wear, no big problems there. The motor is a vertical AC motor which drives the 2 axles under the cabin. The problem with that arrangement is that it can't pull that much when you put the small bonnet in front. The bright colors are a real attraction and the machine looks great. It has the same diecast sideframes on the wheels as the F3, and those are very good in detail.

[Anonymous]

I have one and it runs fine. It pulls the same loads as all my post war engines (no two motor units) and never complains. I love the paint job. Its a GREAT locomotive.

[brianel027]

There are some who knock the quality of Lionel MPC product. Changes were made that on some levels cheapened product (plastic gears, plastic rivets to attach trucks to rolling stock), and yet there were also positive changes made (like going to the fast angle wheels) that are still being used today.

I also remind folks not all postwar stuff is top line either... there was plenty of cheapening going on at Lionel by the late 1950's. I'd rather have an MPC Alco than one of those single axle gear drive low-end Lionel Corp. Alcos. Oh, and I forgot the dreaded Scout steamers with their bakelite enclosed motors... again, I'll take a cheap MPC steamer over one of those.

This #8030 engine was the very first Geep made by Lionel MPC in 1970. The handrail stantions are folded sheetmetal (like the ones on some Lionel flatcars) - which later went to plastic and then back to stamped sheetmetal around 1975. The shell on this loco is also unprimed on the inside so the inside cab lights cause the shell to glow. Masking the outside of the shell and priming the inside with flat grey would cure that problem. Other than that, it is pretty similar to most MPC kinds of locos mechanically. It was a then top-line MPC loco in that it had a 3-position reverse unit (many had 2-position). On a comparision quality level, it's not a postwar Lionel quality loco. But the MPC locos are not all as bad as they're made out to be. I have several and they all run fine.... they do take a little more TLC than some postwar locos. And they do have the potential for future problems due to cheapening of the worm gear.

CTT did a great article years ago on "tuning up" MPC-era diesels.

The Illinois Central 8030 has never been that collectible - even when compared to other MPC diesels. I've seen them on ebay and at shows for very reasonable prices. If the one your want is mint in the box (be sure it is and not someone just saying that) and it is in good conidition (not rusted from being stored in a damp basement) you'd be off to a good start as far as worn gear problems. Most MPC stuff is bargain priced as compared to other things available, so making improvements like adding additional roller pirckups or priming the inside of the shell becomes more affordable.

Lionel also made an Illinois Central U36B sometime in the mid-1970's that is slightly better quality than the #8030 Geep.

[Anonymous]

ITS A GREAT ENGINE, I HAVE 3 OF THEM, ALL FROM THE CROSS COUNTRY SET,
NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER, JUST THE OCCASIONAL OIL AND GREASE.
HAS 2 TRACTION TIRES, PULLS ALOT OF MPC CARS INCLUDING THE DUMMY 8254 WITH NO TROUBLE
HOPE THIS HELPS

MARK

[okiechoochoo]

I have always thought this engine was a very attractive locomotive. I am considering buying one mint in the box. I know the early MPC production does not get good reviews but just how bad is this engine. Can it be coverted to magnetraction and have better pickups installed. Perhaps the best thing would be to buy say a 2338 Milwaukee GP and put the IC cab on it. Just looking for opinions
Thanks [?]