Lionel factory prototypes

[Anonymous]

I originally posted this on another board, but haven't gotten many responses.

On Ebay at the moment is what is listed is a "possible" prototype of the 6810 flat car with trailer.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZstoutauctionsonlineQQsorecordsperpageZ50QQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1

Is there a sure way to confirm or disprove this?

From the other rare items listed I would guess this part of a larger collection. Anyone know of any large collections liquidating at this time?

TIA,
Dan

[Anonymous]

Dan,

I attempted to post this reply on another board, but there may have been a problem, so here goes again.

Well, it is known that Lionel "mocked-up" cars for catalog purposes and trade shows by redecorating existing product. While doing the research for my book I examined some of these cars (although that chapter of the book was eliminated in favor of more material useful to the average collector.

Comparing what is shown in these photos with what I have seen in person, the car being offered has the right characteristics for a prototype in the time period that the 6810 was introduced. The style of the decal number matches the typeface used by Lionel, it appears exactly, plus the offering mentions that decals appear to be the same age as the car.

In the case of many prototypes, and paint samples, there is no such thing as absolute proof. These cars were often disposed of through normal sales channels as set components....after all, at that time they were just inventory. Back in those days Lionel was making and selling toy trains, not "manufactured collectables." However, you must consider whether the cars characteristics are consistant with other known prototypes, and also, ask yourself "why would anyone go to this much trouble?" The listing indicates the decals are the same vintage as the car. Why would anyone go to the trouble to find identical typeface decals (or decals period) in 1958 to create something that could be bought off the shelf readily. If the listing is erroneous, and the decals are of newer vintage, does it not stand to reason if fraud was a motive the car would be in better condition (i.e. No cracks, no rust on the axles)?

As an aside, a friend of mine picked up the mock up/prototype of the 202 diesel when it was offered for sale in local newspaper as part of a generic train set.

A job transfer made me lose contact with the 202's owner before he passed away, but the last account I heard was that it had changed hands twice, with the second time being for $5,000.00 dollars.

Depending on how you look at them, these prototypes are either pieces of history, or oddities. Either way, some of the few postwar items that are legitimately rare.

Back to this specific piece.....at the price range its in now, it would be hard to go wrong. Looking at the sellers other auctions there are a number of hard to find pieces being offered. That, coupled with the high number of positive feedbacks (99.9 percent of 2000+ )adds some credibility to the offering.

Hope this helps,
David Doyle