TCA and comments

[Anonymous]

I have been reading about the latest TCA meet in York, PA and that it was rougher than usual. Lots of comments about rules, enforcement, changes, and attitudes of the organization. I notice lots of comments here and at other forums but I wonder if anyone is actually sending their comments to TCA. I think that it would be of the most benefit if we sent our comments directly to TCA and maybe they will get some attention. The TCA address is............
"[e-mail]"

[Bob Keller]

The show is the property of the Eastern Division, not the national organization. members of the division are the only people who can change how the show is run, and a lot of them can make pretty good points on why is should largely stay unchanged.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Part of the reason I hold York in such low regard is that it upstages the national organization and the national conventions. It gives many people the excuse to not bother going to the convention. They spend their time and money going to York instead.

The entire train collecting world revolves around the Eastern Division, and it's big party. The manufacturers show up there and cater to them, they don't make the effort at the national conventions, because the attendance is not there. It's things like this that bother people in the rest of the world. This may sound like sour grapes from people who don't live in the east, but in the end it will spell disaster, as new blood gets harder and harder to find.

Why not Chicago instead of York? At least it's centrally located. People from all over the country could ride Amtrak to Chicago, if they wanted to.

The Eastern division has always been the strongest. That fact has managed to smother growth in the rest of the country. The numbers don't lie.

Telling the Eastern Division to stop being sucessful is a futile gesture, but they do so at the expense of the entire organization. The Eastern Division has outgrown the national organization. It started life as the tail, but has become the dog. We are stuck with it fleas and all.

[3railguy]

The big push is an open day for the TCA. By law, the TCA becomes a commercial institution when this happens. Much restructuring needs to be done before it can happen.

Turnout numbers for an open day would be purely speculation where turnout numbers for York as it stands now are confirmed with your registration. The costs such as fairground rent and policing would be risky and these costs should be total responsibility of the dealers, not the TCA.

Would an open day promote the TCA? Would people join if they felt open days were good enough? Would people who already belong to the TCA drop out only to attend open days?

The two signature sign in policy comes up often and I don't know why this is such a big deal. The TCA as a group wants dealings to be fair and prompt. The two signature sign in is an attempt to insure new members understand the values of these trains.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Yes John, I'm not sure an open day would help, because most of the people interested from the York area are already members with access. Also because it is such a large and established event, it has the full attention of the tax collectors. Maybe what needs to be done is a number of smaller shows scattered around, out from under the TCA's umbrella. No dealers, no manufacturers, just individuals selling trains to the public. Maybe even some operating displays. The problem with this concept is finding organizers and venues.

Then there's the issue of side meets and "trunk sales", that are already outside the TCA jurisdiction. Do many trains actually change hands during the real meet?

[Bob Keller]

I don't think that York draws anyone away from going to a national convention. You are either a convention goer or you aren't. Shopping is another matter.

If York didn't happen, it would not motivate me to go to a convention as a substitute.

[railfan23]

One thing I noticed with the ones ragging on York. How come NOBODY has said a word about the Cal-Stewart meets?

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railfan23

One thing I noticed with the ones ragging on York. How come NOBODY has said a word about the Cal-Stewart meets?

Good question. In all honesty, I don't know anyone who goes to Cal-Stewart, so I haven't heard any stories. I don't recieve mailings twice a year for Cal-Stewart. Is Cal-Stewart as big as York? Do the manufacturers attend?

[Anonymous]

I feel that if comments were sent to the TCA National organization then they could communicate with the Eastern Division and forward these concerns. I've noticed that many of the people commenting on the situation at York are not Eastern Division members but are TCA members as a whole. Also I would think that the Eastern Division would be under the jurisdiction of the TCA National organization so any comments to National would be looked at and add their own suggestions and comments.

[Anonymous]

Pease;
I like your idea. Yes, while Divisions and Chapters may
make local rules and policies, they must all adhere to
the National Consitution and By-Laws and rules and
regulations.

As a TCA member myself, I have seen some of the pro-
blems that have been described. I was at York this time
and noticed a definite change in attitudes and actions.

There were problems from both sides. Bad manners
and increased disregard for the rules by members, and
bad attitudes by TCA officials and Security personnel as
well. Heck, there were even bad manners exhibited by
some booth-holders, too!

Maybe if comments were sent to the TCA web-site, they
could be used as a form of critique to improve on the
mistakes of the past and get ideas for new revisions of
policies. Not just for York, but maybe for all such meets.
After all, the hobby is supposed to be fun and maybe the
biggest problem is that all sides have lost sight (hope
this is just temporary) of that. The comments could be
used to regain the "fun factor" so sorely needed at a time
of litigation, division and dissatisfaction.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railfan23

One thing I noticed with the ones ragging on York. How come NOBODY has said a word about the Cal-Stewart meets?

Not one comment has been made on the TCA yahoo forum about York rules.

[brianel027]

Ultimately it is up to the TCA itself to decide what it wants to do as an organization. If a majority of the members are happy, or at least content with the current status quo, then changes are unlikely.

I like to think of it this way: Many years ago when many of us were kids, we had Lionel trains and played with them as if they were toys - because they WERE toys. In the process of growing older and taking interest in buying back some of our childhood memories, the TCA was formed. In time, our chilhood toys became pricey collectibles. In part because of the quality of the trains, in part because many were heavily played with, and in part because of the growing interest in having the best of the trains that were in the best condition. BUT the TCA wouldn't even exist if many of us hadn't had trains and played with them as children.

You have to have memories first before you attempt to buy them back (and that's something to seriously consider for the future!)

The TCA has served a great purpose in retaining interest in the trains, especially when times were lean. It didn't take Lionel MPC long to realize there was a growing market with adult who were interested in collectibles. BUT now the market has changed substantially. More companies making trains, more operators, more diversity, and too few buyers for too many trains. Yet the TCA seems to me to be stuck in the past when dollars were more important, when collecting took precedence over operating and when everyone thought you could easily strike it rich by anything that said "Lionel" on it.

Even Lionel has catered to this perception. Their dealer requirements seem far less concerned with actually selling trains to as many people as possible and far more concerned with maintaining some kind of exclusive elite status as if these trains are so important that you need to be special to sell them. Nevermind the poor wholesale margins, decreasing buyers and higher list prices that are making many small dealers realize it just isn't financially worth the effort regardless.

Every single time I ever read anything about this hobby in the mass news media, there's always the lines on how this is an expensive hobby, how it is an aging hobby group, on how collectible the trains are and the typical examples of how this train sold for X-thousands of dollars. These perceptions hurt growth of the hobby. No one wants to participate in a hobby where you are going to be looked down upon or have someone thumb their nose at you. Nor is it anymore helpful to have a TCA member selling a used Lionel MPC Kickapoo Valley Train Set in a Pepsi soda box (sign said in mint condition... yeah right... guess that guy didn't read the TCA bylines very carefully) for the big discount price of $250.00. He was quick to say it was a "highly collectible set and worth much more than $250.00."

I don't think so. This attitude of the seller determining the value of something (and the price guides) and not the overall market is something of a turnoff for me, and probably a turnoff for many newcomers. There hasn't been a single time I don't go to a show and see broken trains or boxes of junk trains with prices on them that disregard the actual condition they are in... I think a lot of guys look at those prices guides and see the first price for "mint" or "like new" condition and stop reading there. Then the seller tells you that "this can be easily fixed." Or that the parts "are very cheap." Great, if it can be so easily and affordably fixed, why doesn't he do it? He wants the premium condition price for trains that are a long way from premium condition.

And yes, these sellers were TCA members.

Sure, some trains are worth their money, just as some buyers are not knowledgeable on what is and isn't collectible. And yes, there are bad apples in every chobby club out there. But it does strike me that there is a lot of resistance to the reality that the overall values of many train items are down.

On the topic of non-TCA folks chiming in on these topics of the TCA... I've read in the train mags the TCA would like to increase membership. Well I am another non-member and have little interest based on some of the issues that have been descibed elsewhere in other threads. But this is also just my opinion. I like running trains and having fun with them. I guess if someone doesn't operate his trains, he might not remember that. I sure don't need someone who hasn't had his own train layout in 50 years, or even operated any of his trains in that time telling me how much something is worth when I know better.

I didn't even mention the guy that wanted a full grand for 4 beat up rusty Lionel Scout steamers (a couple without tenders) that wouldn't be worth that had they been brand new still in their boxes. There's a guy that WILL be taking his trains to his grave, because no one is going to buy them for his prices.

[3railguy]

I agree the complaining is from a small minority. You will always hear complaining about rules no matter what. Many rules are made because people complain. Then people complain about the rule.

People complain that the hobby is not being promoted properly because train stores cannot compete with train meets. Now I hear the TCA is doing a lousy job of promoting the hobby because their trainmeets are closed to the general public. Their is no light at the end of the tunnel trying to please everybody.

There is a fine line between growth and integrity. It would be nice to see the TCA grow but to deregulate it would deteriorate the integrity of the association.