I also get it Charlie. Have a great weekend.
Swede
OK, I get it. The number of sections is a personal matter based on how soon before a train arrives you want the signal to start flashing. On mine, the first & fourth 'switch' track are the third sections from the approach to each signal. The second & third (between the two signals) are:1 'switch' track, a 1/2 track, and then the other 'switch' track'. My layout is such that a 1/2 track was necessary to complete the loop.
What I'm calling 'switch' track is a section of track with the outer rails isolated to create an electrical on/off switch.
That;s the long answer. The short answer is: still nine sections of track.
Charlie
In your May 22 post, you indicated you had 3 pieces of track before the first signal, 3 between signal 1 and 2 and 3 after the 2nd signal, for a total of 9 sections of track. I was questioning if you placed a 3rd signal 3 track lengths away from the 2nd signal and then had 3 isolated tracks following the 3rd signal for a total of 12 track sections. At the present time my layout is also L shaped using 3 ea. 4' x 5' sheets of plywood. I have not attempted to assemble a upper level.
12 sections of track in line?
Don't know just what you mean by that, Swede. My layout is, basically, two 6'x8' tied together in an L shape with an approximately 3x8 foot upper level with mountain. Trains are running but more detail work to be done as far as modelling & wiring accessories & uncouple/unload tracks.
Charlie, do you now have 12 sections of track in line? Sounds like a nice sized layout.
No problem, Swede. I have finalized mine now. I installed another isolated 'switch' track between my two close signals & duplicated what I already had. One rectifier, capacitor, and wig-wag flasher operate one signal and another set operates the second signal.
Now, an eastbound train activates the west-side signal before reaching it. After passing that signal, another isolated switch track activates the east-side signal. The new, fourth isolated track, keeps the west signal flashing until the last car clear this track. As the train continues east, the east-side signal continues to flash because the front of the train has reached the last isolated track to the east of the east-side signal. As the last car clears this track, the east-side signal stops.
The operation works in reverse for a west bound train.
Thank you, Charlie. I have been out of town for a few days and did not see your response until this evening.
Swede, the rectifier is a 276-1185 from Radio Shack. I like the size and ease of connecting wires to this one.
Thank you, Bob.
That's a 1.4-ampere, 100-volt bridge rectifier from Radio Shack. Since most lamps used with toy trains draw 100 to 200 milliamperes (e.g., the number 53 at 120 milliamperes), the 276-1152 would easily be big enough for several signals.
Bob Nelson
For clarity, Charlie, what rectifier are you using? Bob Nelson, would the (276-1152) used in your flasher circuit be suitable? Just curious.
Thanks, Swede
Good point, Bob. But the two signals are only 2.5 feet apart so there wouldn't be much lead time to get the second set of lights operating as a train activates the second flasher.
On this layout, I think what we've got going will be more than satisfactory for now. I may try your plan later; I could always go back if it didn't activate the lights quickly enough.
Again, thanks for the help and have a great Memorial Day weekend.
Thanks to all who served us and our country.
You're welcome, Charlie!
Your explanation of how you're using it has inspired me to suggest a way to operate the two signals separately, each when the train is across its own street. To do this, the KW transformer that you're powering the signals with may have none of its terminals connected to the track. If that's the case in your setup, all you will need is your second flasher module and two diodes.
Instead of connecting the transformer directly to the track, instead connect the negative terminal of the rectifier (and capacitor) to the outside rails generally. Then power each flasher-signal combination by connecting the flasher X terminal to the positive terminal of the rectifier (and capacitor) and the lamp common to one of the outer (insulated) control rails. This will cause each signal to flash independently when the train is on the outer control-rail section on its side of the streets. Finally, connect each of those outer control rails to the one center control rail through a diode, with each diode's cathode connected to the center control rail. (The cathode is the end with the ring around it.) Suitable diodes are any of the 1N4001 through 1N4007. Now each signal will flash just when the train is close to its own street; so the flashing will start and stop at different times for each signal, which seems to me to be a more interesting operation.
Thanks a lot, Bob!! It finally works. I've uploaded an new diagram with the capacitor inserted correctly. Anyone interested in using this idea can check out the wiring at:
http://s730.photobucket.com/user/wyomingscout/media/DSCF00271.jpg.html
Now I have both accessories wired into the layout so that the outer rail on three pieces of isolated track are inserted before one signal, between the signals, and after the second. These act as the switch to complete the circuit for the lights. The signals are fairly close together at two streets in town. This way, the lights come on before a train reaches the first signal (no matter which way it is running) and stay on until after the train passes the second signal because there is at least one axle on a piece of 'switch track' as long as the consist is near, or between, the signal lights.
Thanks again for all the help.
Put it in parallel with the rectifier's output, not in series. That is, connect the capacitor's positive terminal to the positive terminal of the rectifier and its negative terminal to the negative terminal of the rectifier. Usually only the negative terminal of a capacitor is marked and then often with a not very clear minus sign. Otherwise, leave the circuit as you had it in your diagram.
The capacitance is undoubtedly 4700 microfarads (for which the proper abbreviation is "uF", the u standing in for the even more proper Greek lower-case mu). This should be enough to give you very little ripple with any likely toy-train lamps. The voltage rating of 35 volts is much higher that you need (12 volts), but there is no harm in its being on the high side.
Bob, yes, that is the flasher I have (2 of them). I bought a 4700 mf Nichicon condenser. I put it in-line, arrows flowing from rectifier to flasher, on the DC + line between the rectifier & the flasher. Nothing happens.
The condenser is stamped 4700mf 35v. On my voltage meter, this condenser shows a current flow of DC voltage just like a battery would. I got it based on what the guy at the electronics store recommended (based on my explanation of what I was trying to do). Did I get the wrong condenser, or am I hooking it up wrong, or both?
JamesSP, I planned to add a Lionel 154 highway signal, but was going to put it in series. I've about given up; right now I have gone back to the Tridon 536 tungsten flasher. This works with no rectifier or condenser. The higher the AC voltage, the brighter & faster the lights flash in unison on both the Marx and the Lionel crossing signals in series.
wyomingscout
Good point, a modern electronic flasher like that one will want filtered 12 volt DC and current won't matter, whereas the old style with the bimetal element will need a certain amount of load. Just depends on the type of flasher...
- James
Is this what you're using? http://www.novitatech.com/?q=aftermarket/products/heavy-duty-flashers/el13a-2
If so, I doubt that the size of the load makes a difference in the flashing pattern, since it is claimed to work with a wide variety of loads. But it probably does expect reasonably clean DC voltage in.
One thought here... a flasher of this sort relies on a minimum amount of current in order to flash. After reading your original post, it sounds like the previous times you used a flasher it was connected to both bulbs in parallel, since they both flashed at the same time... that would be twice the current compared to this circuit with the wig-wag flasher. It is possible that one flashing one bulb at a time doesn't draw enough current to heat up the element in the flasher to make it cycle. Your diagram looks like it should work, filtered DC aside. Try adding more bulbs in parallel - or another complete signal in parallel - and see if it will start cycling.
Bob, you're right; no capacitor. I never used one on the tungsten flasher on my old layout. That worked without a rectifier, even. The lights all flash at the same time with it, though. I'll get a capacitor and install that.
It sure looked like it should work, so I knew I must be overlooking something. Thanks for the information.
You haven't mentioned any filter (like a capacitor) for the output from your rectifier. Without that, you will get full-wave DC, which varies every 1/120 of a second between 0 volts and the peak of your AC waveform, which itself is 1.4 times the RMS voltage. So, when you put 20 volts AC into the rectifier, the rectifier puts out an instantaneous voltage of about 28 volts, far higher than the 12 volts that the circuit was designed for. You will be lucky if it has survived.
It was also probably designed with the assumption that it would receive a reasonably smooth and constant DC supply voltage, not the wildly fluctuating voltage that you may be giving it. You can remedy this by putting a suitable capacitor across the output terminals of the rectifier. To know how much capacitance you need, you need to know how much current the circuit draws. For a peak-to-peak ripple of about .8 volts, you will need about 10 microfarads per milliampere. More capacitance is better.
With the capacitor in place, to get the desired 12 volts DC out, you should set the AC voltage into the rectifier to about 9 volts.
No, the wigwag is designed for a 12vDC system, such as police car or ambulance headlights. After I tried this, I found a very old posting from another forum where guys were using them on DC model planes for clearance lights on the wings.
Here is a diagram of the wiring (I hope).
DSCF0027.jpg.html
Is the wig wag designed for '0' gauge trains? If so, it should not need a rectifier to work, and should be designed to hook up directly to the transformer. A clear picture of the wig wag, wiring and crossing signal would help.
Larry
Has anyone tried this? I have used a tungsten flasher on my old Marx crossing signal and it worked okay on that and on the Lionel 154 highway signal. Of course, both lights flash on & off at the same time. This has worked even with the flasher wired into a piece of Fastrack that is also in a control block.
A wigwag flasher should make the lights flash alternately, as on fire & police vehicle headlights.
I have the wig wag wired to a full wave rectifier. I have AC voltage from my ZW U and C posts wired to the AC prongs of the rectifier. I have a ground wire from the crossing signal to the '-' on the rectifier and a wire from the 'X' on the wigwag to the '+' of the rectifier. A wire from each of the 'L' prongs on the wig wag runs to each of the lights in the crossing signal.
At about 10v AC, one light comes on. At increased AC voltage, the other light comes on brightly and the first light stays on dimly. No wig wagging of the lights. Also, there is a fairly loud buzz emanating from the wig wag flasher at the higher (12-20v AC) voltage.
What am I doing wrong?
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