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Restoring a Postwar Steamer Questions

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Restoring a Postwar Steamer Questions
Posted by Cheese on Monday, March 3, 2014 9:58 AM

I just purchased the shells of a 736 Berkshire and tender off ebay (not sure if it's a 2046w or a 2671w, is there a way to tell since the shells look so alike?) and in the near future will be starting a long term project to rebuild the locomotive and tender from the ground up. I have a few questions and I figured this was the place to ask.

I remember seeing a lot of these covered in the pages of CTT in the past, but I've been downsizing over the past year or so and have only kept a handful of favorite issues while the rest were given to Goodwill. 

1. I want to repaint the engine in the correct smoky black as opposed to some regular old black. Which model paint manufacturers offer something like this?

2. I want to replace the buzzing e unit with an electronic one. Who makes these? 

As of right now these are all my questions. Below is a picture of the shells, and as you can see I have my work cut out for me. They should arrive sometime this week. Now that I've got them I'm compiling a list of all the components I need. I'm going to try some of it on my own, but I will definitely be seeking a professionals help to sort out all the various electronics. 

Nick! :)

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Posted by arkady on Monday, March 3, 2014 10:28 AM

1. I want to repaint the engine in the correct smoky black as opposed to some regular old black. Which model paint manufacturers offer something like this?

I've found Krylon Satin Black to be an excellent match for the semigloss finish on Lionel postwar steamers.

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Posted by LIRR1926 on Monday, March 3, 2014 11:11 AM

The are several sources for electronic e-units. Make certain the one you get is for an AC motor. Dalee is one source 

http://www.dallee.com/E_Units.htm

Scotie

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Posted by LL675 on Monday, March 3, 2014 11:44 AM

I've rebuilt several steamers, and I really like the Krylon. Keep us updated on your project.

Dave

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Monday, March 3, 2014 12:37 PM

Cheese

I just purchased the shells of a 736 Berkshire and tender off ebay (not sure if it's a 2046w or a 2671w, is there a way to tell since the shells look so alike?)

The shells are identical. The difference is the trucks. The 2671 uses 6-wheel trucks and is the most desirable.

Cheese

2. I want to replace the buzzing e unit with an electronic one. Who makes these? 

There are a number of electronic e-units available but finding space is going to be a problem. You're probably going to have to mount the electronics in the tender. As long as you are going to do this have you considered just going all-in and doing a full an Electric Railroad TMCC conversion with sound?

At minimum consider a liquid smoke conversion in the locomotive.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, March 3, 2014 1:02 PM

Or put a rectifier on the e-unit coil.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Monday, March 3, 2014 1:59 PM

Yep that will silence the buzz.

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Posted by Texas Pete on Monday, March 3, 2014 2:43 PM

BigAl 956

At minimum consider a liquid smoke conversion in the locomotive.

IMO not necessary.  When I got my 646 Hudson a couple or three years ago I was all concerned about putting a liquid smoke conversion.  So I figured since I'd be replacing the smoke unit anyway I went ahead and ran liquid smoke in the OE unit.  It has been smoking like a popular BBQ joint ever since.  Needless to say I've left it in place.

Pete

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Posted by Cheese on Monday, March 3, 2014 4:46 PM

Wow, thanks for the quick responses guys, they've definitely helped. If anyone else has any general advice I'd really appreciate it. 

I also scored the shell of a 2343 A unit and a 2531 observation car, but I'm setting those aside till after the 736. 

Nick! :)

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Posted by cwburfle on Tuesday, March 4, 2014 9:17 AM

Smoke?

I prefer to stay with Smoke pellets. They are readily available. I like the smell, and they do not create any oily residue.

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Posted by Cheese on Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:03 PM

I'm still very torn about the smoke unit. I had a 2055 a few years ago with a liquid smoke unit and it was fine, but on the other hand I think putting the pellet unit in it would be cool. 

Nick! :)

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Posted by Cheese on Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:17 PM

Also, in this photo it appears that one of the cab roof corners is a bit bent, which I was aware of before I paid for it. I remember seeing an article in CTT about fixing this, but of course no longer have the issue. Can anyone tell me how this can be fixed?

Nick! :)

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:59 PM

If you consider trying to straighten it out, you should know the zinc is malleable between 100 and 150 °C, but brittle at most other temperatures.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by teledoc on Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:50 PM

Your Tender shell is the 2671WX, which is the Lionel Lines shell and the three holes in the rear for the backup light kit.  It came out in 1951-1952, and was the 12 wheel version.  The 2671W was stamped "Pennsylvania" versus the "Lionel Lines" stamped 2671WX tender. 

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Posted by servoguy on Thursday, March 6, 2014 10:21 AM

Here is a link to a post I did a year ago on straightening bent cab roofs.  

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=16951

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Posted by Cheese on Saturday, March 22, 2014 4:34 PM

@ teledoc : Thank you! I thought it might be. Even if it wasn't I was going to restore it as one anyway :)

@servoguy: I'll take a look at it!

Project update: So as of now the shells (along with the shells of a 2351 observation car and 2343 F3, which are projects for a later date), are in my possession and are sitting on my bookshelf. The bent cab roof corner is actually not as bad as it seemed in the picture, and had I not seen it in the picture, I probably wouldn't have noticed it, it's so slight.

I'm currently considering the purchase of a chassis I have found; it has the wheels, rod assembly, motor, eunit, and smoke unit, all of which except the smoke unit work. I'm going to replace it with a liquid one anyway, so that's no matter. It also comes with the steam chest, but it seems to have been sloppily welded or soldered together, so I'm probably going to replace it. 

Since it's a total rebuild with no collectible value, I'm going to customize it a bit. I'm going to give it a 2065 boiler front (I love the feed water heater) and buy a 2 wheel trailing truck as well as a 4 wheel trailing truck so I can switch it from a 2-8-2 to a 2-8-4 whenever the mood so strikes me. I will be lettering the tender for Lionel Lines and giving it the number 736 though, as I can't really think of a fictional road name I really like. I may even give it a completely different tender, and save the 2671 for another project I may be tackling in the future. Color wise I'm still going for it's original black, but I'm considering painting the cab roof red. 

If anyone has any other suggestions, or any articles or threads they might want to recommend (especially on the tuning of motors and e units, should if be needed), please do!

Nick

Nick! :)

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Posted by Cheese on Saturday, March 22, 2014 7:58 PM

I'm considering purchasing this item. Thoughts? 

Were some 736s released with nickled drivers like these? Or do you think it was added after?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-736-Chasis-Side-Rods-Motor-E-Unit-Smoke-Unit-Cow-Catcher-Pick-Ups-/151256464827?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2337967dbb

Nick! :)

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, March 22, 2014 9:14 PM

This does not have nickel rims or drivers, this is a basic run-of-the-mill 736 chassis with sintered iron drivers in poor condition & needing a lot of work.

For this kind of $$ you can get a complete 736 in better condition that this at a meet or show.

Rob

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Posted by Cheese on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 2:44 PM

Ah, my mistake. The description said nickle and I can't really tell the difference. 

While that may be true, that's not the road I want to go. It's a labor of love, really. I don't much care for meets and shows, I feel so out of place and excluded by the older generations. I went to one once and was only acknowledged by a dealer when he realized I was about to drop about $400 at his table. 

Nick! :)

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Posted by LL675 on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 2:58 PM

don't judge all shows by a few inconcederate people. One thing I remember from my youth, is going to the US Air Force Museum with my Dad. We got to meet the Director. I had gotten used to being ignored while the adults talked. But Colonel Upstrum not only talked to Dad, but he talked to me, because he could see I had a real interest in the history. I still get ignored by dealers, but unless they have soething I really want, I buy elsewhere.

Dave

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Posted by Cheese on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:11 PM

This is true. I HAVE always wanted to go to York ;) South Carolina is a bit far from PA though. I'm moving to NYC at the end of the year which is a bit closer, so mayhaps next year. 

Nick! :)

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Posted by Rob412 on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 8:10 AM
I have felt the same at times but like anything there's the good and bad. I FINALLY got to York last October after 10 years of putting it off. Go it's worth the trip.
On a side note when I went I brought my camper and stayed for three days. Upon leaving my leveling jack broke and the RV dropped to the ground. As I struggled to get it hooked up an older gentleman stopped to help. It was early morning cold and still dark. He stayed with me until the camper was secured on the truck. About a half hour. I remember he was from Sinking Springs PA. While I can't remember his name I will always be grateful. There are some great guys out there
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Posted by Cheese on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 8:20 AM

That is very true. :)

Project update: The chassis picture above (yes, I bought it), should be arriving in the mail today. I'm going to do some tests and cleaning, and mayhaps some tuning if needed. 

I'm also purchasing a soldering iron and an airbrush. I've decided to test my hand at repainting the engine myself, and I feel like the soldering iron is just generally useful to have around. 

Nick! :)

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Posted by David Barker on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 8:40 AM

Sounds like a plan!

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Posted by Cheese on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 6:03 PM

Project update: She's starting to look like an engine again! The chassis I bought came today, and it (like the shells) look much better than in the photos. To get an idea of what it looks like I put the shell on the chassis, and it's currently sitting like that on my bookshelf until I get a minute to test it out later. 

Nick

Nick! :)

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Posted by David Barker on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 6:47 PM

I hope the project turns out well.  It sounds good so far!

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Posted by Cheese on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:24 PM

Thank you Mr. Barker. I've been taking photos as I go. 

She runs! Better than I expected anyway. The motor is quiet, and the e-unit is quiet as well and works perfectly. The engine runs smoothly for the most part. It has a slight waddle that I suspect is caused by one of the drivers being loose on the axle, so once I take it apart for cleaning and such I'll see what I can do with that. If I feel it's beyond my level of skill I know a man in my hometown who has done some work for me before and he should be able to fix it. 

I've decided to not go too crazy on her, and give her a proper 736 boiler front instead of the 2065 front, and a 4 wheel trailing truck too (though I may still get a two wheel one to switch out when the mood strikes). 

I'm investing in a beginner's soldering iron (though I doubt I'll need it), an airbursh (I'm going to attempt repainting the engine and tender myself), and a copy of Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains, 1945-1969, as I've been told is a pretty invaluable source of info to have. 

Unless I manage to get some free time before May, this project may be on hold until after the summer. I'm a professional actor/singer/dancer and have just signed a contract that will keep me busy from the beginning of May till the end of August. (with hopefully some more job offers to come after that lol). But as things happen I will post them here. 

Nick

Nick! :)

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Posted by rack776 on Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:48 AM

Just keep at it,

Over the course of a year & a half I built a 671 from spare parts found in junk bins at the train shows, I must have spent 2x the money to buy everything as separate parts and I had a heck of a struggle with pressing on & off wheels to replace worn  axle bushings.....but I don't think I'll ever sell that engine the pride of "making a lionel engine" your self is wonderful.    Keep us up to date!

-Jason

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Posted by LL675 on Wednesday, April 2, 2014 6:27 PM

excatly. I have a gunmetal 225E,a 1664 I changed to a 2-6-2,and a Postwar 1666 that I rebuilt from bare shells. Cost effective, maybe not. But I sure enjoyed the projects.

Dave

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Posted by GG1 guy on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:41 PM

What did you use to pull off and press on the center drive wheels?

I see no clear reason why I should grow up...

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