Post War Lionel Trainmaster FM 2321 & 2331

[Leverettrailfan]

I have a 2321 with a maroon top shell that was factory-painted grey (who knows why, but it’s clearly facorty done, although flaking off quite extensively), and the chassis it is on, has the vertical lamp posts. I’m wondering if this would mean that the shell and chassis aren’t original to eachother, because I’d assume that the shell was done up to match current production, and I doubt they still had surplus maroon top shells kicking around in the inventory, by the time that the lamp posts were changed.

[reverseletter56]

I realize this post is 4 years old but what the hell...Mike, if you are still listening hope this helps..The horizontal(on the motors) inverted 'L' Lamp posts were used in BOTH 1954 and early '55. All maroon Lackawanas and many grey tops utilize this configuration as well as ETCHED battery covers. In fact-sticker battery covers pretty much started in '56. Th early 1955 Black & Gold Virginians have the same 1954 configuration as well as solid metal magnetic disc(under the trucks). I have seen later 1955 Virginians with the vertical(front of motor)lamp set ups. In late '55, the switched to a 2 piece disc. Rule of thumb, at least based on my pieces over the year-If it's on a grey shell, it usually always has horizontal mounted light mounts, etched batter covers, and two solid steel discs. Best response above-Lionel, indeed used up old inventory, many dealers swapped shells with frames, etc. as well so unless you have a mint out of the box piece, you never know.In short,1954 is certain-'55 is 'either way' and '56 FMs on-latter configuration.

[Curmudgeon]

ezmike

Dave,

Thanks for replying.

Yes the maroon roof was the first one. It has an etched battery cover and if you look inside the light bulbs are horizontally mounted over the motors. In 1955, when they stopped painting the roofs maroon and they introduced the black and yellow 2331 they change the posts that hold the bulb sockets to just a vertical post and eliminated the bend over the motors. Also around the same time they eliminated the etched battery cover and replaced it with a plain cover with a black sticker. I've seen battery covers that have not sticker or etching.

So my question is, could the grey roof 2321 Lackawanna have an etched battery cover and bent posts? I guess that is possible if it was produced in either late 1954 or early 1955 from the left over parts?

Then, could a blue and yellow, blue shell 2331 have a battery cover with a sticker or nothing on it at all?

Does this help?

Mike

That's the rub. Without dated documentation, and serialized locomotives, very hard to pinpoint the time full changeover occurred. I, too, have been told they used up old stock...just like Henry Ford did.

Reason I didn't know about the lamposts, is when I was involved, nobody looked inside the loco.

On the battery cover, well, if brand new in the box never been run, what you have is what you got.

Unless someone put a later shell on an older chassis that had a damaged shell.....or a battery leaked and it got a new battery cover.

I know about production changes....old Fords (used to be Early Ford V-8) and Jaguars. But at least Jaguar shows the serial number change point in the parts manual.

Dave

[rtraincollector]

I'm not that up on the 2321 or 2331 but I do know there's reports that Lionel would use leftover stock to begin a run/subsitute if ran out of certain parts therefore just about all what you said is very possible.

[ezmike]

Dave,

Thanks for replying.

Yes the maroon roof was the first one. It has an etched battery cover and if you look inside the light bulbs are horizontally mounted over the motors. In 1955, when they stopped painting the roofs maroon and they introduced the black and yellow 2331 they change the posts that hold the bulb sockets to just a vertical post and eliminated the bend over the motors. Also around the same time they eliminated the etched battery cover and replaced it with a plain cover with a black sticker. I've seen battery covers that have not sticker or etching.

So my question is, could the grey roof 2321 Lackawanna have an etched battery cover and bent posts? I guess that is possible if it was produced in either late 1954 or early 1955 from the left over parts?

Then, could a blue and yellow, blue shell 2331 have a battery cover with a sticker or nothing on it at all?

Does this help?

Mike

[Curmudgeon]

My original 2321 maroon top has the etched battery cover, no sticker, not blank.

You've got me on lamp posts.

Never heard of anyone looking before.

Describe more fully, please.

Dave

[ezmike]

I need help from one of the PW Lionel experts on the forum. I'm trying to determine the correctness of these two versions.

Let's start with the 2321 Lackawanna, should the grey roof have the bent lamp posts like the initial version with the  maroon roof or the straight posts like the 2331 & 2322? And, should the battery cover have the etched writing like the early maroon roof version or the one with the black sticker? Any chance it has the blank cover?

Now the 2331, blue and yellow on the blue shell, I know it should have the straight lamp posts but what about the battery cover? Etched, black sticker or plain?

Thanks in advance.

Mike