Williams and Lionel together??

[sir james I]

 I would NOT run them together unless they run somewhat near the same speed.

Turn the engine over and if you see can motors mounted in the trucks that's what you have. And if you couple this type motor to an unequal power you can also overheat the reverse unit and out that will go.

[srguy]

Can anyone tell me what type of motors are in the Lionel engines mentioned in my initial posting. I was unable to find any info on either model. I believe the Williams consists of dual can motors. The Williams appears to be more powerful than the Lionels .... it also moves with less power applied from my KW.

[lionelsoni]

Unless there is a really great difference in the two locomotives' gearing, the series-wound unit will always provide some additional power when coupled to the can unit and so will only help it.  It may help a lot and it may help a little; but it won't hurt.  This holds true up to the point that the unloaded series-wound unit will not run as fast as the loaded can unit.  You can check this by coupling the can unit to the train, then placing the series-wound unit ahead of the train--but not coupled to the other unit.  If it runs away from the train, it is safe to couple it into the train, in which case, it doesn't matter which locomotive is first and which second.

[charliebrown]

laz 57

If you are running these engines in command mode here is an informative video using momentum of the Cab1 and shows the settings for a can motor and a Pullmore motor.

http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/service-documents/video.cfm?documentID=6362

If you are using two different engine don't put them together until you see how they both run.  It will cause the slower one to drag and put strain on the faster engine. 

laz57

Good info in the video. Makes me want to covert to that system. The dollar signs tell me no. Well that and I would be in divorce court!

[laz 57]

If you are running these engines in command mode here is an informative video using momentum of the Cab1 and shows the settings for a can motor and a Pullmore motor.

http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/service-documents/video.cfm?documentID=6362

If you are using two different engine don't put them together until you see how they both run.  It will cause the slower one to drag and put strain on the faster engine. 

laz57

[charliebrown]

I agree with with what you're saying.

So if my unit with two can motors is the lead loco and the wound motor is second. The wound unit isn't going to cause a drag on the can motor unit is it? From what you state it will act as an auto trans but I don't want it putting a drag on the other unit in the flats.

[lionelsoni]

If at least one of the locomotives has a universal motor, matching the speed is much less critical.

A DC can motor wants to run at a constant speed proportional to the voltage at its terminals.  So, if the motors of two locomotives run at different speeds when given the same voltage, they will fight each other, with the faster locomotive drawing most or all of the current as it tries to speed up the slower one.  The same thing happens when dual motors in the same locomotive are not well matched.

A series-wound motor (like that traditionally used in prototype locomotives, and like the universal motors in postwar and earlier toy locomotives) is much more flexible with respect to speed, acting almost like an automatic transmission.  When presented with an increasing load, the motor slows down, causing the voltage across the armature to drop, which increases the voltage and therefore the current at the field winding, which increases the torque that the motor delivers.  The motor thus effectively downshifts to match the load.  Two or more series-wound motors do a good job sharing the load over a wide speed range, as each adapts to the situation at hand.  A series-wound motor will also adapt to the constant-speed behavior of a can motor.

[charliebrown]

I was thinking of running two Lionel locos together and wasn't sure how they would react. This is such an easy and obvious test. Sometimes you just over think things. Thanks for the info Sir James I!

[wmwalker]

I have found that the rubber tires being harden or worn out cause the wobble. Try replacing the tires.

[sir james I]

Uncouple them, run them both on the track at the same time. If they don't stay reasonably close together then you could damage the motors running them together. The Lionel wobble is usually caused by an off center wheel or just plain overloaded and the tires are stretching.

[srguy]

I decided to run a Williams FM dual motor with a Lionel GP 20 (circa mid 80s) also dual motor together as a lash-up. You may ask why .... when I run the Lionel alone it's not steady at all ... shakes around curves but has plenty of pulling power. I thought I would try it with the big heavy Williams in the lead and they run well together ... steady as she goes with the Lionel as well. My concern is that this arrangement may possibly do some harm to one or both of these locos. Thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Jim