Thanks to a leaking pipe above my control panel, I've got a ZW with standing water in the lower case. I just noticed it was wet this morning, but further inspection reveal rust on the laminations and damage to the paper on the primary coil.
What should I do at this point? Obviously, plugging it in is out. Replacing the primary looks like a lot of work, and I won't let a "professional" touch it after the last one charged me $92 to replace one carbon roller, both rectifiers, and one binding post.
The ZW in question is a 275W with the large adhesive type nameplate an the upper case.
Jim
Having dealt with windings for many decades, on old generators for automobiles, to rebuild the armature is turn the commutator, undercut, then bake them. That's just for moisture in the air and under the hood.
Your rust means this has been going on for a while.
My guess would be a new unit, if you can find one with a broken case, missing handles, might be fixable.
Otherwise, see if you can find a local generator rebuilder and have the core baked to get the moisture out.
The wires are insulated, but it's just varnish. Dirt, old carbon from rollers, could get a flash over.
Dry it out all the way, should be fine.
JimmyT,
Don't get too excited. May not be so bad. Do you have any pictures of the inside?
Take off the case and bake it at 160 for awhile to dry it out good. Or use a hair dryer if you want. But a long slow baking should not do any more harm than the water did so you got nothing to loose.
Then plug it into a GFI circuit and see what happens. If it don't blow the GFI check the terminal out puts, spray the moving parts with silicone spray, clean the coil and go. You may be surprised.
I had a Forney arch welder that was under 34" of dirty river water for two days in the flood of 1996. I dried it out and away it went. Used it for 10 more years till it blew a capacitor. And the best part the flood INS Co. paid me $600.00 to replace it.
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
Curmudgeon,
Thanks for the reply. I am leaning towards parting this one out and looking for a good replacement. I'd rebuild it, but I've gone down that road too many times and invested more money into something than it's worth.
Dry out the transformer thoroughly first before condemning it. The rust on the laminations can probably be taken care of with a little Scotch Brite. As long as the insulation on the windings has not been compromised, the transformer should still work properly. Dry it out, plug it in, and try it.Larry
Bake it out. Simply drying it out will not address water that has worked into the windings.
But that's okay.
Safety.....first?
Curmudgeon Bake it out. Simply drying it out will not address water that has worked into the windings. But that's okay. Safety.....first?
I think I tried to say that too.
"But a long slow baking should not do any more harm than the water did so you got nothing to loose."
A ZW is just a small arc welder anyhow.
Jim,
if your gonna "part it out" I'd be interested in the outer handles. they can be removed easily, I'll tell ya how to pop them off , again, if your interested in selling parts
Ryan
Thanks all for the replies. I dried it throughly, then thought back to my time working in a glass plant playing with 480V equipment in less than favorable conditions. With that, I plugged it in. It seeems to be working fine, but I'll change the rollers in case the moisture affected them.
I thought about baking it at 170, which is the lowest my oven can be set. But, I couldn't find a 4-40 screw to remove the handles, and I was also concerned about the cord.
Just sit there and run the hair dryer and read a copy of CTT looking at what they think are all of the perfect layouts till you think it is good and dry or you fall asleep. A lot of the problems may of been from where you were storing it in the first place. Then start welding with it.
If it has its original 2 prong cord, a GFI outlet will offer no protection whatsover.
Well it sounds like Jim got it going that is the main thing.
A GFI outlet certainly will work properly with a device having a 2 prong cord (no ground). They sense any differences in current flow between the two conductors.
Yeah I thought about that after I made my post that most are only 2 prong unless someone has replaced it and added the ground.
Where would one connect a ground wire?I ask because I have seen some very bad advice posted on the subject.IMHO, it's best to replace a Lionel transformer's cord with a like replacement.
An equipment ground is generally connected to the frame or metal parts of the equipment that the user may touch. I don't think that the ZW itself has any point like that. However, it is very likely that a user will come into electrical contact with the output terminals, particulary the U terminals, because of their connection to the track. So I would connect an equipment ground there.
Bob Nelson
Re: Posts earlier in this thread by KRM dated 2/06/13 @ 7:48 p.m. 6:48 p.m.: also 8:40 p.m.
Did I detect just the slightest whiff of sarcasm in these posts as indicated by the emoticons? Hasn't anyone here ever examined a derailment and found a wheel "stuck" to the track? How did that happen?
Even if you haven't, you would be wise to respect the potential of a post-war ZW 275, and others. Although there was no "welding" in the following link, you might be impressed with this recent thread from "that other forum." Note that this ZW was fused at only 8 amps, whereas it is capable of putting out 15 amps or more.
Smirk at your own risk!
http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/13537903700844041
bfskinner Re: Post earlier in this thread by KRM dated 2/06/13 @ 7:48 p.m.
Re: Post earlier in this thread by KRM dated 2/06/13 @ 7:48 p.m.
Funny I don't see a post from me at that time on that date.
If you saw my earlier post where I was talking about a welder I had with water damage you may of better understood the comment. A train transformer and a welder are a lot alike and both should be used with respect. One can weld small wire with a ZW. No sarcasm to it. I would suggest that anyone with a ZW should use fast acting breakers downstream from the unit as back up protection. I do.
Inconsequential edits performed.
bf,
I had a roller on a 50 gang car weld itself to the bottom of the frame as a result of a derailment and a ZW breaker not tripping fast enough. I witnessed another ZW with a failed breaker burn the carbon rollers as well.
Really, I think most don't realize the large amount of current that a ZW can deliver until it's too late.
redfire,
Thank you for your post. That's exactly the point. Any transformer, wire, connector, and track system is only as good as its weakest link. In bando Bill's case, the weak link was extremely hard to spot. ADCX Rob may well be correct as far as his galvanic corrosion of the rivet is concerned. Note, therefore, that the faulty item was replaced by another of the same type and possibly a similar history. Hmmmm....
This case was "sneaky wicked." I suspect that I would have been caught just as Bill was. Worse yet, I just ordered a half dozen lockons, although not used, not old and not by Marx. To solder, or not to solder -- that is the question. Normally I love to solder, but in this case I really don't want to; but this has caused me to re-think a bit.....
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