Santa Fe 2243 B Unit

[RAVL]

Hello,

I am looking to buy a Santa Fe 2243 F-3 B unit.  Found one dealer who has one but he became unresponsive when I asked for some photos and at least a stab at a C-rating.  He was quick to quote a healthy price, however. 

Anyone here have one they are interested in parting with or happen to have potential leads on another reputable source? 

Thanks in advance.

[Curmudgeon]

Not sure what a healthy price is to you.

This one went out oh, three weeks ago for $137:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-2243-C-Santa-Fe-dummy-b-unit-box-/181053647461

Five hours left, currently at $132:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-POST-WAR-SANTA-FE-B-UNIT-2343C-MESH-ROOF-VENTS-/350705053511?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D5406666072732853827%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D181053647461%26

I'd consider $200 high, with five days to go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-POSTWAR-2343C-SANTA-FE-DUMMY-B-UNIT-ALL-ORIGINAL-/230921819746?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D5406666072732853827%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D181053647461%26

[lionelsoni]

They're pricey, often more expensive than the single-motor A unit, because they're the only B unit Lionel made that matches the later 2383 A-A set.  All the other ATSF B-units have silver trucks (and, I suspect, a truck geometry unfriendly to O27 turnouts).  Anyone wanting to make a prototypical A-B-B-A set needs a couple of them.

My daughter surprised me by giving me the last one I needed to complete 4 sets.  She must have gotten me talking about them sometime (not hard to do) and managed to remember what she needed to get a nice example on Ebay, because she has no interest in trains.

[RAVL]

Not sure what the deal is with respect to the last two listed by Curmudgeon, but the 2243 has black trucks, and matches the 2383 -- that's why I want it.  The versions with silver trucks are much easier to find.  Not sure why those are listed as 2343s. 

[ADCX Rob]

Raymond Lombardo

... the 2243 has black trucks, and matches the 2383 -- that's why I want it...

That's why everyone wants it.  And why it often sells for more than the powered "A".

[Curmudgeon]

I've repainted more sideframes on those things over the years. Even made ones all black, to all silver. If you can pick up a silver one cheap, repaint the sideframes with semi-gloss black Krylon. Nobody will know but you.

[RAVL]

Don't the trucks need to be disassembled to paint them properly?  I thought the truck side frames were riveted to the gear case / power truck, but maybe I am wrong.

[Curmudgeon]

I can't remember offhand. I know the power trucks are. I have a set of those sideframes on the plate.

If they are, remove the trucks, if the wheels don't come out (and again, on the powered trucks, the gearcase and wheels come out the bottom), just mask off what you need masked.....stick cardstock strips up between wheels and inside of sideframes, and squirt away.

Once you drop the truck out, if it's the same as powered unit in design, should be one or possibly two screws without a motor holding the plate to the case with wheels.

Been so long since I did one of those, can't recall if they used the 2343 trucks, or if they are riveted on non-power trucks.

Might be why I remember cutting cardstock strips and inserting them between wheels and sideframes to paint. Wrap the coupler with masking tape.

[RAVL]

Thank you for the advice and idea.  

[lionelsoni]

If you have O27 turnouts, you will find that the 23xx units' bodies will hit the switch machines.  The "center" bearing is not in the center but close to the coupler, causing the middle of the body to move farther to the inside of curves.  The bearing on 22xx units, which were sold as O27 locomotives, is far from the coupler, eliminating this problem.  This will also make a visual difference on sharper curves, in that the ends of the units will swing out different distances.

[ADCX Rob]

"O" gauge F-3s 2363, 2367, 2368, 2373, 2378, 2379, 2383 all shared the "O-27" geometry(& vertical worm drive motors).

[lionelsoni]

It's good that you pointed that out, Rob.  "O27" implies vertical motors; but "O" can be either horizontal (earlier) or vertical (later).

[ADCX Rob]

Well, it's really not all that concrete.  The 2245 has a single horizontal motor.

[martinden]

Even more complex -- not all 2245s had a horizontal motor -- some made in 1955 were mounted on 2243P chassis with a vertical motor (and a silver pilot).

Black painted silver trucks (i.e., 2343Cs  with the horizontal-motor type trucks) still don't look right to me -- the wheelbase is longer and, as Bob has pointed out, the pivot-point geometry is different. Obviously, many people don't notice or aren't bothered by this.

If we're going to move to painting things (only for the non-fastidious collector or operator), get a generic MPC B chassis (with black trucks), and then paint the frame silver. Presto, a faux-2243C chassis. The silver's not hard to match, expecially if you're not really picky. I'm pretty sensitive to colors, and I've gotten satisfactory matches with Lionel silvers from one or another of the Testor spray cans. Lighting affects your perception of color, as does the extent of gloss or matt finish. And the silver Lionel used on the 1955 and later Santa Fes (2243 and 2383) I believe is duller and more aluminum-like than that on the earlier ones, though many earlier examples have lost some of their shine over the years; all of this means getting several different silvers and then spraying samples to gauge the match under your lighting.

Once you get a frame, suitable bodies come up pretty frequently on e-Bay (again, if you're willing to take less than absolutely excellent; the really nice ones are still on their chassis and paired with an A at a pretty price).

And, just BTW, if you have some use for the powered A, you can often get a better deal by buying an A-B set -- many people are (thankfully!) reluctant to split up the units.

Finally, on the question about removing the sideframes, the construction of the two trucks is different. The 2343C type (with the horizontal motors) has sideframes that are each held on by a screw. You have to take the trucks off the chassis to get at the screws -- release the horseshoe clip.

Good luck and have fun!

Martin