Wiring the 3656 cattle ramp and the 445 switch tower, using a Lionel CW-80 transformer.

[ADCX Rob]

Kooljock1

Rob,

Is is possible to phase these two units?  Don't they both have phased wall plugs?

Jon

They have polarized plugs.  There are many ways to work around that.  Saying how would get us deleted on that other (***) forum.

Bob, while I, as you probably realize, know full well the advantages of having the the power supplies actually out of phase, there are two reasons I can think of to have them phased:

1)Convention/simplicity.

2)To keep voltage potentials on the "train table" at safe levels.

That's all we need is someone with a couple of old Type Zs wondering how we could have steered them into frying everything on the layout with a 48-50 volt circuit.

[lionelsoni]

It can be done with either transformer in either role.  I suggested using the earlier transformer for the trains because he doesn't intend to use its accessory output, he can connect it to the track in whichever way works the whistle and bell, and mostly because that's the way he already has it and doesn't need to change it.

As I have posted many times, there is no need to have the track voltage in phase with the accessory voltage.  The two don't have to have the same phase nor frequency nor waveform nor amplitude.  No one has ever offered a reason why they should be in phase.  Consider the way your house is wired:  Every 120-volt outlet, lighting fixture, and appliance uses the neutral wire (the white one, corresponding to the outside rails of the track) as a common return.  Half your 120-volt loads (corresponding to the center rails of the track) are connected to the black phase and the other half (corresponding to out-of-phase accessories) to the red phase; but they all share the same common, without any problem.

[Kooljock1]

Rob,

Is is possible to phase these two units?  Don't they both have phased wall plugs?

Jon

[jmdicola]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will give thos a try.

[jmdicola]

Thanks for the input; I will try this technique.

[jmdicola]

Thanks, I will give this a try. Sometimes I think I should just invest in a re-conditioned ZW-275!

[ADCX Rob]

I would recommend actually doing the opposite - use the "G" code for running trains and powering track as the "U" posts are common, using the earlier one for accessories only as the "A" and "B" posts are common and should be connected to the "G" transformer "U" posts.  Treat the "U" under "A" and "U" under "B" posts as the variable and programmable accessory outputs for switches and accessories and these two transformers will play well with each other. 

This will preserve the proper operation of the whistle & bell controls.  Proper phasing procedures will need to be followed, too.

[lionelsoni]

The one without the "G" is strangely wired.  You are right to use it only for the trains.  Wire the U terminal of the "G" transformer to the outside rails.  Wire terminal 1 of the 445 to A or B, whichever you want to run the switch tower.  Wire terminal 3 to the outside rails.  Wire terminal 2 to a control rail--an insulated section of one outside rail.  You don't need a relay or contactor.  If you want to put in a switch to turn the light on and off, put it in series with terminal 3.

[jmdicola]

I am using tubular track--everything I have is from the catalogs, 1949 through 1953. I just am not sure which accessory post(s) to use to hook up these accessories. I am using Atlas connectors to turn on and off the oil derrick and light towers, and these connectors are powered by the B and U terminals on the transformer. Can I do the same with the cattle ramp and/or switch tower, or do I hook them up directly to the accessory transformer?  The CW-80 I am using for accessories has the G code. The one I am using to run trains has a QC code. So, now I am wondering to which transformer will I wire the constant voltage plugs for my 022 switches.

I appreciate any help you or anyone can give. Thanks.

[jmdicola]

I have two CW-80s--the one running the trains is a QC, the one I am using for accessories is a G.

[lionelsoni]

Which version of the CW-80 do you have, with or without the "G" prefix on the date code?

[Brewman1973]

for the 445 switch tower, you have two ways to hook it up a) with a 022 switch, or B) with a 145C contactor.  Both of those options require tube track.  IF you are using fastrak, then you would need to make an insulated track section and use something like an Atlas snap relay to activate it.  If you just want to use an on/off switch,  I think you would need to use one that was a push buttion, momentary on type.  Others my chime in with better options. 

Also, the Lionel web site has manuals for the switch tower, but it is for the burning type, so the wriring is a bit different, but it may give some ideas. 

 

Dave   

[jmdicola]

I have tried to follow the instructions for wiring the 3656 cattle ramp and the 445 switch tower, but with no luck. Of course the instructions are written for older postwar transformers such as KWs and ZWs. Can anyone help me get these accessories wired correctly so I am not feeling so discouraged. I have had no problem wiring the 455 oil derrick or rotary beacon or floodlight tower.

Thanks for your help.