027 switches/turnouts

[roadkillphil]

     I'm another older guy who dug out the old Lionel and started messing with it.  Thanks to all the previous posts and threads...am learning alot.

     My issue is the apparently long standing switch/locomotive compatibility one.  I thought I would eliminate the "not quite enough throw" problem with my 1121's (with remote) by purchasing new 65121/2's.  Not exactly a plug and play setup.

      I have a 1654 (early "Scout"), and 2035 locomotives and a 400 powered Budd car on 027 3 rail track.  All the powered units run fine on the 1121's.  I have cleaned, lubed and adjusted the turnouts (short of disassembly of the bottom) but still get inconsistent complete throw of the swivel and resultant derailment. Tricks with throttle management help-I am on track power for now, until I can work out the kinks.

      With the new 65121/2's the Budd car runs fine.  The 2035 would lose power on the switch and I found that by covering the outside of the frog with a piece of tape, which prevents the center driver from bridging to the swivel,  I can now stop the 2035 on the turnout and it will restart and work fine...great for the small test track and coupling/uncoupling/dumping on the operating track.

     But I can't get so lucky with the 1654.  I have sanded down the plastic guide rails which helps with the bumping and power loss on the straight.  I have moved the loco by hand over the switch until I am crosseyed and know that the contactors (not rollers) push off to the side when encountering the frog, which causes another bump but I don't think a short or open to the swivel.  I am suspicious about the contactors....I have continuity with an ohm meter between the contactors, but I note that when over the operating track, the 1654 loses power when one contactor is on the insulated portion of the magnet, ie, it would appear that both contactors must be on the center rail to get power to the motor.  this appears to be true over the turnout, also.

      So, I am thinking of filing down the outside of the frog rail to expedite passage over the turnout.  And I am wondering about ground, also:  Should the pilot and rear trucks be a part of the grounding system?  I could make sure there is better ground at the pivots on the loco.  And is it normal to need both contactors on the powered center rail?  I thought not, hence the presence of 2 rollers or contactors. Could I connect the contactors directly to each other w/o damaging anything?  The gears on the inside of the drivers ride up on the swivel, also..wonder if thinning the swivel would eliminate the problem?

      I have quite a bit of 027 track and space limitations, so I would kind of like to use it.  Plus it is a bit more "vintage."  But it is also quite frustrating and reminding me of why I parked it all in the first place.

     BTW, the local hobby shop kind of pooh -poohs the Scout, but after I lubed it and got the e-unit working, it runs like a little demon.

    

     Thanks for any input/advice.

[ADCX Rob]

The 1654 is a great runner, but was designed long before the 1122/1122E/5121/65121 style switches and is simply not compatible with them or 022/042 switches.  They were designed for O-27 sets with 1121 & 1024 switches.  Marx switches will work too.

Lionel redesigned the gearing for this engine resulting in the very similar 1655, which enabled it to run on the "O" switches and the post-1952 O27 switches.

[lionelsoni]

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding your description of the problems.  Perhaps the difficulty is in nomenclature:

The stock rails are the rails that the wheels run on.

The guard rails are the rails next to the stock rails opposite the frog and are usually plastic.

The frog is the triangular casting where the stock rails meet.

The points are the rails that move when the turnout is thrown.

The pickups are the things that contact the center.  They should be connected together, either by being part of a single assembly or by wiring inside the locomotive.

[roadkillphil]

     Sorry I don't know what I'm talking about,,,got those terms in the Greenberg book.  I think I know what you mean by the guard rails, which are what I sanded down and seems to help some with the Scout.

     I also don't understand electricity enough.....the locomotive acts like it has to have both pickups touching the center rail when over the central insulated part of the remote control track or when over a plastic part of the turnout to get power, but I have verified it gets power fine with one pickup insulated from a standard  rail by cardboard.   And its wierd but if I elevate the outside wheels of the loco just slightly off the outer rail on the curve, it wil maintain power all the way through.  The gears inside the driver also bump the frog rail, but I have a piece of black tape there that insulates it.

      Guess I need to get some good 1121's if I want to run everything together.  Probably less brain damage, too, but now it's the principle of the thing.

      Thanks again!

      Thanks again!

[jeffrey-wimberly]

roadkillphil

the locomotive acts like it has to have both pickups touching the center rail when over the central insulated part of the remote control track or when over a plastic part of the turnout to get power, but I have verified it gets power fine with one pickup insulated from a standard  rail by cardboard.

I don't know a lot about O Scale and I don't pretend to. But I'm fairly certain that both of the center pickups have to have contact with the center rail for the very reason that one could lose contact on an insulated area. The O Scale trains I had as a kid had a long plate under the power truck that contacted the center rail at two points at least a couple of inches apart. My brother in laws old Lionel steamer is that way too. My nephews first train set was some kind of Lionel army set and had two contact rollers under it.