PS-1 with the BCR

[spankybird]

Walt, I believe you are correct about the low voltage and the battery taking over. I also recall reading this. I beleive it was from MTH, as to why they need a battery.

tom

[Anonymous]

Dale,
Great idea, that should work!

[Anonymous]

George
You may improve operation by wiring the 2 motors in series.This would in effect double your startup voltage.

Dale Hz

[waltrapp]

altera6: I can't say for sure on this but somewhere in the cobwebs that I call my memory I thought I recalled reading that PS-1 electronics require a certain voltage and if the track doesn't supply it then the battery does.

Could you be draining and recharging the BCR at the same time?

Boy I wish I could find the source of stuff like my comment when I need to find it!!!! Has anyone else heard of this low-voltage battery takes over concept with PS-1??

- walt

[Anonymous]

746j,

Thanks for the additional information; my EP-5 is an original PS-1 locomotive that I bought NIB. The point I am trying to make is that, unless you run the track power at 10 VAC or greater, the BCR will not fully charge. In my Lionel Virginian Rectifier the shut down sequence sounds (normally last 15 seconds) start to distort, sound sloppy, if I have run the locomotive at lower than 10 VAC before shutting down. With my RailKing EP-2, I get one ding and some engine noise during the shut down sequence, which is about 10 seconds shorter than the Lionel sound system. I like and will continue to use the two BCRs I have installed and will continue to use them. If I buy any more RailKing PS-1 or older Lionel TMCC locomotives, I will more than likely install BCRs in them too.

[waltrapp]

746j: Great research. Thanks for taking the time to do it AND report it.

[Anonymous]

George and Walt,
With this post I had to do some experiments myself. Here's what I found, to clear things up. I have both MTH engines and Lionel TMCC engines with the BCR installed, and have the charging circuit installed in the Lionel
Walt, what George was saying was about his LIONEL rectifier engine, You really don't need a battery in a Lionel engine to run. It will not damage or scramble the electronics. In conventional mode, if you want shut down sounds or sounds when you cycle the engine, you will need a battery. If the battery is going dead, you will not hear the full shut down sounds.
I had a voltmeter hooked up to the BCR. When I applied 6 volts to the track, using a Z4000, with my MTH SW8, the BCR started to charge up. After one minute the voltage was 9 volts. J & W was right that the BCR would charge up a 6 volts or more. When I applied 10 volts to the track, the BCR charged up in 45 seconds. The engine would not move, without any cars, untill I applied 7 volts or more. George, if the EP 5 can run at 6 or 7 volts, with cars, you should have no problem running or shuting down your engine at that voltage. Is that a MTH engine Proto Sound engine?
Now with my Lionel engine, GP9. At 6 volts to the track, the sound system came on at 3 volts, after about 1 minute the BCR only reached 6 volts. I suspect that their charging circuit is a 9 volt regulator and can only supply output voltage equal to input voltage up to 9 volts. But the sound system did shut down properly at 6 volts. It only was at idle speed. If you apply 10 volts, the BCR will charge up in about 45 seconds. I could not get my GP9 to move, with no cars, untill 10 volts. It reaches the second speed sound, before it moves.
I would say if you have an TMCC sound system engine and you want to hear the shut down sounds, if it runs under 6 volts, you sound have no problems hearing the shut down sounds, if you hear the sound while you are running the engine.
In the MTH engine, if you run the engine at 6 volts or more for at least one minute you should have no problem when you shut down.
Walt, I'd be interested in what you found.

[waltrapp]

George,

Interesting information you supply about minimal voltages. I emailed J&W about 2 months ago expressing similar concerns about running my PS1 engines in conventional mode and that I didn't need higher voltages to run them. I mentioned that I had read in the infamous "somewhere" that you needed 12VAC to maintain the charge and asked for their opinion.

I wish I had maintained an electronic version of the response so I could have attached it here. J&W responded to me saying that anything above 6 volts would maintain the charge. He said that since most MTH engines don't start up until 6 volts and probably run at a minimum of 8 to 10 with higher voltages more typical, they designed it to maintain charge at anthing above 6 volts!!!

Your observations seem to offer a major contest to that response!

I bought my BCR in Feb., 2004, but because I only have a 3 month layout around Christmas I have yet to try it myself.

Thanks for that information - I will keep it in mind and am looking forward to doing some experimenting myself.

- Walt

[Anonymous]

I run my trains on a small O-31 layout, as such 5 to 6 cars and a caboose is about it. The problem I have is that if I run track power to the +10 VAC recommended by J&W I fear my locomotive and cars will go airborne! My EP-5 runs at a good clip at 7 VAC, you can hardly see the light in the caboose it is so dim. Therefore, at start up I run track power to 10 VAC for a minute then back it off, then at power down I run power up to 10VAC in neutral for a minute then shut down. I also added a BCR and charging circuit to a Lionel Virginian Rectifier from around 1997 and it works fine there too, but again, I have to run track power to a higher setting before shutting down to get the full shut down sequence of sounds. Any time track power runs below 10VAC the BCR will start to discharge to the lower track voltage. A feature I like on my RailKing F3 w/ Loco-Sound is that the locomotive does not start moving until track power is greater than 10 VAC because of the Cruse Control. All the lights in the passenger cars really glow when I run them with this loco!

[Anonymous]

I purchased my first one at York in October. Had it almost a year and it works fine. Since then I put them in almost 20 engines, PS1 and PS2, all work fine. It's getting use to running your engine in a certain way( one minute power up).I'd rather do that, then having the unknown, if the battery will power down the sound system properly. Don't know why MTH would not fully recommend them in all their engines. Maybe they have an excess of batteries and battery chargers and charging ports, they need to sell. I haven't found a problem yet. Keep us posted on you findings. I would be interested if anyone else has tried them?
I'd like to see CTT do a review on the BCR?

[Anonymous]

All, just got a NIB Railking New Haven EP-5 w/PS-1, offered in 1999. At a great price, I might add! Out of the box, I installed a BCR (Battery Component Replacement) from J&W Electronics, http://jandwelectronics.com/ . Powered the locomotive up for one minute and everything worked fine from there on. I also noticed the MTH/Railking has a statement on their web site regarding the BCR that is worth reading, http://www.mth-railking.com/service/bcr.asp If I notice anything going wrong, I’ll follow up ASAP!