Yet another elect question??

[KRM]

I have a 153IR controller I have had running a 153 block signal. Today I tried to hook up a 6-14098 Mainline crossing gate to the controller as well. Well the 153 block signal will work with them both hooked up but the crossing gate will only work right with the block signal unhooked??

 Any thoughts or ideas on this? I am not using track power on the controler. A CW80 is what I am using and I tried it off ZW power but had the same results. Am I missing something or can't this be done?

Thanks in advance.

Kev

[Anonymous]

Kev,

         Disconnect the 153 and use a separate 153IR for it.  The electronics controlling the Mainline crossing gates use the NO/NC connections to determine if the gates should be up or down and power the motor housed in the base accordingly.

My guess is that the bulbs in the block signal are interferring with the crossing gates.

[KRM]

I am thinking your right Jim that it is the bulbs. I have hooked the 153  to a older 153C but the newer cars are too light to keep it lit no matter how you adjust it 

[ChiefEagles]

I've found the best way to control crossing gates is us insulated track sections that start before the gates and after the gates.  Gates go down before the train gets there and stay down after the train leaves.  This works for trains in running in either direction.

[KRM]

Thanks Chief

 Do they make insulated curve track ?

 

[ChiefEagles]

I believe you are on tublar.  Easy to do.  I usse top use black electrical tape.  Remove outer rail.  Put tape [or the insulators like in middle rail] between the ties and rail.  Recrimp.  I'm sure Fastrack does too.  If not, easy to do.

[dbaker48]

Kev,

I have 2 of the 153's, bought specifically for crossing gates, here is what I found.....

1. If run trains in ONE direction only, they will work, somewhat.  One 153 activates, the other deactivates when the train passes.

2. If you run in both directions, a real pain.  Because the train in the second direction would activate After the train passes.

3. EXTREMELY sensitive to ambient light.   Get them adjusted for daytime, totally different at night with other lighting.

4. Multiple track operation,  Forget it not that sensitive or too sensitive when a ambient light source changes.

Strongly suggest using the "isolated" track sections as described above.  Much more reliable and works everytime.  The 153s are now used for accessory activation on my layout.

[KRM]

Don,

I think your right. my 153IR worked ok with the block signal but I don't like it on the crossing gates. I think I will look into the isolated track deal. Never done it but look straight foward enough. Thing is I need to make a curved section work.

 Thanks. Stay cool out there.

[KRM]

Here is the problem I am having.

I have been looking for a diagram for how to do this with the new 6-14098 signals but I can't find one for using a insulated section in front and behind the gate. I understand how they will work with the old style gates but these new ones have a 5 wire hook up to them. That is why I am corn- fused

Red and blue shown to transformer. White, yellow and black going to a 158 controller. How would you hook these up to a two insulated section in front and behind the gate??

 Do any of you know where I can see how to wire it? I just don't want to screw it up.

[ChiefEagles]

Shake and Bake knows the answer.  We discussed by phone. This is no big deal.  Thought he was going to post and answer.  Since he is left coast time, maybe soon.

[dbaker48]

Didn't get a chance last night, will try and get a diagram up tonight, after work.

[KRM]

No problem Don thanks,

 I just built two insulated track sections to use so I will be ready. I have so much used track I figured why buy them when I can make them.

[dbaker48]

Kev,

Sorry I don’t have a diagram done yet.  (Where do the hours go?)  But, didn’t want to cause another day’s delay.  Hope this will help, if not I will do the diagram.

 

Wires from the Signal Crossing;

Red Wire – AC power, should connect to the “U” terminal of the power supply

Blue Wire – AC power, should connect to the “A” terminal of the power supply

Black Wire – Provides “ground” for the signal. (Completes the circuit.)

Yellow Wire – Provides “ground” for the crossing arm

White Wire – Provides “ground” for the signal lights.

 

What happens is the Yellow and White wires are connected to the Black wire when a train or some other form of switch completes a circuit to the arm and lights, via the Yellow and White wires.

 

The easiest way would be to

1. Isolate ONE of the outside rails of track, where you want the Signal Crossing to activate.

2. Connect a wire to the bottom of that rail.  (Make sure that there is NOT continuity between the two outside rails.

3. Mount a wood screw to the layout, and lets refer to that as Terminal A.

4. Connect both white wires, both yellow wires to terminal a.  (Ring terminal or spade terminal)

5. Connect the wire from step 2, to terminal A

 

I am assuming you are using track power to operate the Crossing.

6. Connect a wire from the center rail (or other track power point) to the Blue Wire of the Signal Controller.

7. Connect a wire from the other outside rail to the Red wire from the Signal Controller.

 

Now when a train car is set on the track the signal should activate.  The wheels and the axle of the car connect the connection between the two outside rails to complete the circuit.  To establish the duration of activation make sure the outside rail from Step 1 is not connected to an adjoing track section beyond the point you want the signal to turn off.  Once the car passes that point the Signal Crossing Yellow and White wires will lose connectivity, shutting of the signal.

 

For multiple track, repeat step 1 for each additional track, running that wire to Terminal A.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[KRM]

Thanks Don.

I was going to use acc power to run them off a CW80 or the ZW.

 The ZW runs the trains on that track so it would share the U post,  Right?

[dbaker48]

If you can use the ZW, I would stay with that. Otherwise you will have to ensure the other transformer (CW80) is in phase with the ZW, and the neutral is at the same potential.  (connecting a 12v light bulb between the two U terminals would be one way.)

[lionelsoni]

Connecting the commons of the two transformers together should be all that is needed to get them at the same potential.  Note that the U terminal is not always the obvious common terminal.  Lionel multi-control transformers used U for that terminal, but labeled the single-control transformers' variable outputs as U.

An accessory operated from a control rail will share the outside-rail common with the track circuit.  But it is not necessary that the track voltage and the accessory's supply voltage be in phase.  Nor do they need to have the same voltage, waveform, nor frequency.  One can be AC, the other DC, if that is convenient.

If the voltages are both alternating but out of phase, the return currents will also be out of phase and cancel each other to some extent.  In this case, the outside-rail common is acting as a neutral.  The result will be a slight reduction in the voltage drop in the outside rails.

[KRM]

Thanks Don and Bob