Looking around trying to find a tender base for a prewar Northern 4-8-4 3/16" scale O locomotive tender.. Union Pacific. It seems that after making a dozen or more requests to all the big parts suppliers I could find on the net, no one has any in stock. The closest I got to finding one was a maybe, check back in a few weeks. Does anyone know who might have one of these? or have any information on who is making them? Has to be a few of these laying around in dark corners somewhere..
I do also believe that the early 332 S scale postwar tenders are about the same or close enough that one would work. I can't even find a postwar tender for parts? (maybe I'm being too impatient).
Thanks!
Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.
I think the most important part in finding parts is waiting. I have been searching for 6 months for a rear truck to my 570 Hudson (still can't find one). The only way I could think of finding a frame for your tender would be to find a complete tender on Ebay with a bad shell but a decent frame and put it on yours.
Trevor
The hardest part about collecting "rare" or "uncommon" items is what we are talking about here, the need to search and be patient. Trevor I agree with what you are saying for sure. At times it's hard for me to be patient though, I love to run these things around the track too much. I'm not a shelf collector, I'm a runner. I posted here in the hopes that there is one out there lurking or that someone does have that extra UP tender with a good base. These tender bases were reproduced, but it seems stocks have all but dried up.
I have a small foundry near me (it's actually an art studio), I bought a Farmall Super A from them a while ago and talked to them about their casting operation. I'm seriously thinking of taking a tender base from one of my S gauge Challengers and seeing if they can copy it in an aluminum alloy. Maybe a small run of them would be prudent. If my search doesn't turn something up that's an option I'm keeping open.
Of note if you look in Doyle's Catalog of American Flyer the picture of a 571 he has at the right hand bottom page has an American Flyer Lines - Union Pacific shield tender which is clearly postwar behind his prewar Northern. This is certainly a common problem.
the only repro base current advailable is the 1 for the 334 tender. that is because these frames had a bad tendency to warp like prewar tender frames. they have a littlle extra metal in the middle where they would break. they are a lead or antimoney alloy.
now there are 2 versionsof the prewar UP frames.. those without the chuggers (early runs) the shell had studs instead of screw holes and the tender frame was staked solid to the shell.the later frame with chuggers ( 2nd run) were screwed like the postwar frames. Even some of the holes in the middle were carried over to post war. also the prewar frames had tapped holes on the truck bossess fro screwing the trucks to the frame .they were not riveted like the postwar frames.
Have you tried Ron Leventon's hobbysupplies or Doug Peck at Port Hobby Supplies? they had them as of early this spring. I just did this type of repair for a regular customer of mine this past winter. the tough part is cleaning the casting and fitting up the trucks. also since the silver or white dry transfers that used to be around seemed to have vanished, i left it in Black paint and let the owner choose his own decals or dry transfers for the name.
bear in mind if you unit has a chugger the frame will need more work to mount it to the frame.
Hope this helps.
rrlineman thanks for the reply. I have what seems to be an early tender based on your description. My tender frame is "staked" not screwed.. I have no chugger and yes my trucks are screwed on as opposed to rivets.
Doug Peck is closed for inventory or something like that, but I believe his site lists the tender bases as out of stock. I am waiting to try and reach him personally when they reopen.
I was under the impression that Leventon was out of business?
I talked to Triple S and he said for me to give him a call back this coming Friday (august 11) that he might be able to get his hands on one/some, so hopefully something will develop there.
My tender is in great shape with really nice lettering it's only the base that is warped. It is warped in such a way as it jacks up the tender..
that is what my friends tender looked like. As for Leventon being out of business, and another friend just got parts from him last month. his web site appears DOA but try calling his Phone #s listed.
as from the staking, your best bet is to gentley drill the stakes heads,like you would a rivet and then pry very carefully with a thin flat screwdiver to seperate the shellf rom the frame. don't worry if the frame breaks, just go easy on the shell. when remounting the shell, drill the stud remains and tap for a 4/40by 1/4or 3/16 round head screws like Flyer used on the post war tenders. takeyou time and it will come out nicely. and BTW you may have to file the holes in the repro frame a little to get a good tight fit due to shrinkage of the metal used.
and use Krylon satin black to paint after you clean the frame. a very close match.
hope this helps., Mike
Thanks for the tips and the idea to try and track down Ron Leventon. He had retired as I thought, but he is still taking care of "older" (in terms of length of doing business not OLD like some of us), fortunately I dealt with him for years with Flyer S gauge parts. Ron has access to a finished tender base casting that is correct for S but will work for Prewar O with a little bit of drilling and such to make it work with the stakes as discussed in an earlier post. I ordered one from Ron and he says it will be here to me in about 2 weeks. Again thanks for those that helped out and commented on this post. When the part arrives and I get it installed I will post pics and results in this thread.
Cheers,
Pat
Latest news. My Tender base arrived today from Ron Leventon. It is a CNC machined or (laser cut?) as they call it. It is a perfect tender base for the postwar 330 series Challengers. It is machined out of a solid piece of aluminum. No worries about soft castings here. However it had to be retrofitted to work on my prewar Challenger/Northern. First thing I noticed were that the trucks which were held on with screws on the original would have to be mounted with insulating grommets and rivets just like an S gauge tender on the new base. This required using later S gauge rivets, insulating washer/spacers and parts. Next I found that since my tender has the staked over posts AND they didn't line up correctly with the holes in the S gauge base I would have to grind them off. I then drilled and tapped the tender body to accept 6 screws in the position of the new tender base. I then riveted the trucks on and assembled the whole thing. I gave it a testing on the layout and found that the back tender mounting hole for an S gauge base must be forward of the prewar O base. The link coupler did not extend back far enough to give the first car in the consist enough clearance for turns. So I had to disassemble the whole thing and drill the rivet out. I was able to separate the link coupler mount from the truck. I drilled a hole farther back from the original and reassembled everything. It works fine now. The last thing I think I'm going to do it take it apart one more time and "paint" the inside of the tender body with some two part epoxy near the bottom. I noticed some minor stress cracking in the tender body where it attaches to the base. Nothing serious or to be concerned about, but I'm thinking that coat of epoxy will help.
Since we have seen the "before", we hope you are planning to post a picture of the after.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Looking back I guess I shouldn't have been my usual over anxious self and posted a pictorial of the repair from bare aluminum base to painted, drilled, riveted and install. My mistake..
Here are a few photo's showing the 571 restored to it's former glory! The original base was reduced to a crumbly mess barely held together.
I'm putting the before and after pics next to each other for easy comparison. All in all a not so difficult repair that is well worth the time and money.
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
AF53 Now, can I send you some of my 1941 chuggers that won't chug?
Well I have worked on my first chugger. The motor is the same as any Flyer 3/16" motor. Do the basics on it.. clean the commutator, clean and lube everything up. Check to make sure the brushes are good and that there is enough spring tension. I removed the piston and inspected the piston cup. Usually the cup is deformed and doesn't make good contact with the cylinder wall (this is probably one of the major things preventing your chugger from chugging) (think of that old bicycle pump you used to have).. I put some pressure on it to make it wider by blocking it out. You can do this by putting a large ball like say a billiard ball against it to hold it open more. I also soaked the cup in mineral oil at this time. Once it was set up like this overnight I then reassembled it putting a little light grease on the walls and cup to get it to seal.. It took a little squeezing to get it back in place. On the business end of my cylinder was a little plate with a hole in it that had come loose. I took it out and very carefully tried to reform it so it was a bit of a tighter fit. I slid it back in place and then using two part epoxy and a toothpick I sealed it in place making sure to have a little bead of epoxy to prevent air leaks. My chugger now turns and pushes air like it was designed to. I have to say though that this early chugger is nothing like the later choo choo/smoke units. IMHO, I don't think they sound near as good.
Disclaimer.. I am not a professional American Flyer repair service tech. Just a hack that likes to dig in and do things himself.
LOOKS great ! glad to see Ron could help out. the aluminum frame is a new 1 on me thou. didn't know it had been made. Your loco and tender looks great !
Mike
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