That is one of the reasons I don't join a club. We had one start up here last year run by a very controlling guy and within a few months it split off into another group. Half the guys went to the new group. I don't need the hassle.
Roger
The same kind of thing happened here. Club started and was a great thing at first but there were soon divisions. There were the do everythings, the do nothings, the help where I have knowledge and the king of the hill who says what gets done, who goes, who stays and if you don't like it it's my way or the highway. Well a lot of them took the highway including many of the do everythings. It didn't last long.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I guess club layouts have its pluses and minuses. But for a lot of folks that belong to a club it may be the only opportunity to run their trains since they don't have the space at home or don't want to invest the time or money in a layout.
I know 2 individuals that had the space and money but not the time or skills to build a gigantic layout so they had a professional builder build it for them.
Like anything else, its whatever floats your boat.
Bill T.
All clubs have issues, even the well intended ones. My turn off is the layout that was built by someone else. Nothing wrong with that if if you can afford it. But hey mister you didn't do it yourself so why do you get praised in a magazine.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
But hey mister you didn't do it yourself
Could be the person is running a multimillion dollar business and wants a layout but doesn't have the time to build it. Goes back to the old saying, If you haven't walked in his shoes.
I joined a club some years back and it has been great. Where else can you run trains on a large hi-rail layout, pretty much all you want, for about $70 /year. But what is also a lot of fun, since this is a public venue open 6 days a week, you get to chat with people from all over the U.S. as well as the world.
In this region of the country, no or extremely rare basements and no useable attic, so unless you're single or want to keep your cars outside you have little choice for setting up a layout. If you use the garage it's still only useable part of the year due to heat, unless you invest some money in redoing it.
Remember the Veterans. Past, present and future.
www.sd3r.org
Proud New Member Of The NRA
Strange how words can be twisted around.
I kinda agree with everything here. I also don’t like most clubs. Thing is where I live there are no model Railroad clubs so it is not an issue and I do see where it could be nice to just go run your trains. It seems it is the same in any hobby. You will have the doers and the buyers. I do believe that if you want a hobby you need to do the work yourself. Sure there may be parts you need to pay someone else to do if it is over you head or out of reach but the bulk of it you should do yourself. If you don’t do the work what is the point other than showing off what your big bucks can buy. I saw the same thing when I was doing show cars for years and years. No matter how much work you put into it there was always some guy with deep pockets that paid someone else to build his car and he would trailer it to and from the shows and would always win the prize. The problem seemed to be there needed to be a different class for purchased finished turnkey guys and the DIY guys. Then you could give credit where credit was due. We got to the point where we never entered the car because all we wanted to do was be nice enough to park next to anything and still hold up our head. We liked to see what others were doing in all forms. So we would just walk the shows and look around. Now with the Rad Rod class any slob/hack can win a prize. Car magazines would only show the supper cars that mostly were PF from some shop. Same thing in this hobby. Seems you only see the master layouts in the articles and not much of the regular guy layouts. They may not be as intense but the work and ideas are as good as any out there. I am sure that most of the people in this hobby don’t have hundreds of engines and rolling stock on 40’ x 30’ or bigger layouts. I for one would like to see the regular guy layouts more often in the magazines. Those guys have good ideas too. Maybe they should start a Rad Rail class. Like it was said. Whatever rolls on your rails. JMHO
I kinda agree with everything here.
I also don’t like most clubs. Thing is where I live there are no model Railroad clubs so it is not an issue and I do see where it could be nice to just go run your trains.
It seems it is the same in any hobby. You will have the doers and the buyers.
I do believe that if you want a hobby you need to do the work yourself. Sure there may be parts you need to pay someone else to do if it is over you head or out of reach but the bulk of it you should do yourself. If you don’t do the work what is the point other than showing off what your big bucks can buy.
I saw the same thing when I was doing show cars for years and years. No matter how much work you put into it there was always some guy with deep pockets that paid someone else to build his car and he would trailer it to and from the shows and would always win the prize. The problem seemed to be there needed to be a different class for purchased finished turnkey guys and the DIY guys. Then you could give credit where credit was due. We got to the point where we never entered the car because all we wanted to do was be nice enough to park next to anything and still hold up our head. We liked to see what others were doing in all forms. So we would just walk the shows and look around.
Now with the Rad Rod class any slob/hack can win a prize.
Car magazines would only show the supper cars that mostly were PF from some shop.
Same thing in this hobby. Seems you only see the master layouts in the articles and not much of the regular guy layouts. They may not be as intense but the work and ideas are as good as any out there. I am sure that most of the people in this hobby don’t have hundreds of engines and rolling stock on 40’ x 30’ or bigger layouts.
I for one would like to see the regular guy layouts more often in the magazines. Those guys have good ideas too. Maybe they should start a Rad Rail class.
Like it was said. Whatever rolls on your rails.
JMHO
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
I hear you loud and clear. I remember watching a show on model railroading one time and this guy was showing this amazing layout, it wa so cool I thought man I wish I had that talent. At the end of the segment come to find out it's some rich retired guy who paid others upwards of 300,000 for some one else to build it. I have to admit my layout is great or even good but at least I built and it's fun to run trains on. It seems this is what you were talking about since you didn't mention clubs at all in your posting. I couldn't have as much fun with this hobby if some one else did all the creative work.
Can't stop working on the railroad!
sir james I Strange how words can be twisted around.
Or put the whole quote there so you get the full meaning not a twisted version, like in this case I agree with you why should you get the praise for a well built layout that you didn't build I understand the reason you probably had it built ( you didn't have the time or maybe the knowledge to do as well) and thats fine if you can afford it more power to you but back to where I feel the original author was getting at is this is suppose to be a hobby that you want to do, great but is it what you want to really do or just have to brag about what you have?
Me its to enjoy and one day I will finally build a layout, but with my limited income its a step by step procces that will come. I already have taken a big leap for me anyway I now have a ceiling loop around my train room and in the next few weeks once I get everything organized and get the floor preped the floor will be done which really needed it bad lol I'm putting in hardwood flooring ( well the laminate that looks like it that you snap together but its good enough for me) Then the work bench/desk will be built in time then I'll be able to start building a pernament layout.
But as stated we all have our way of doing it and how ever you do it if it fits you fine.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
rtraincollector But as stated we all have our way of doing it and how ever you do it if it fits you fine.
Hey RT, maybe the guy running that multimillion dollar business can send one of his employees over to do the floors for you if he can get the day off from running the guys multimillion dollar layout. I doubt the multimillion dude would have time to run it anyway.
Has it come to this, that we would criticize and attack people who are rich successful enough to pay others to build their layouts? Rather than engage in class warfare, we should welcome the boost to the economy from the jobs that their sumptuous layouts created for the actual builders, and thank the rich successful guys for it.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni Has it come to this, that we would criticize and attack people who are rich successful enough to pay others to build their layouts? Rather than engage in class warfare, we should welcome the boost to the economy from the jobs that their sumptuous layouts created for the actual builders, and thank the rich successful guys for it.
Point well-taken Bob. I don't see anyone directly attacking anyone, just points of thought on the hobby. Class warfare goes both ways and you’re right, I think I am seeing it here now. I think it started further up the thread. I was just poking fun at it all. Successfulness.......is.........after all........like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. What does rich have to do with successfulness anyway? You can't take it with you any more than pride in workmanship. Maybe we should all move on. Have a wonderful evening.
Point well-taken Bob.
I don't see anyone directly attacking anyone, just points of thought on the hobby.
Class warfare goes both ways and you’re right, I think I am seeing it here now. I think it started further up the thread.
I was just poking fun at it all.
Successfulness.......is.........after all........like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.
What does rich have to do with successfulness anyway? You can't take it with you any more than pride in workmanship.
Maybe we should all move on.
Have a wonderful evening.
I have never been part of a model railroad club so I have no firsthand knowledge on them. However, I suspect they have charters, bylaws, and elections just like many other clubs so one should be familiar with those before joining. I believe others on this thread have posted some of the benefits of being part of a club: I have seen photos and videos from Doug’s club and SJ’s club and I am always impressed.
I believe SJ’s comment may have been actually directed towards the magazine publishers and not the layout owners. If a layout owner submits photos and videos to a magazine and the magazine decides to publish a story about it, that’s their choice. I would hope that the owner and the magazine would be upfront in the story about how the layout came to fruition.
I have no issues with people paying someone or some business to build a layout for them. Actually, I’m very happy these businesses exist and that some people can afford to pay for such services – it is part of what makes the US great. I don’t believe one has to do the work to participate in a hobby. The American Heritage Dictionary defines a hobby as: “an activity or interest pursued outside of one’s regular work and engaged in primarily for pleasure.” A good analogy would be stamp and coin collectors. They don’t make the stamps or coins, but these are hobbies people enjoy. Also, reading is a hobby for me, but I don’t have to write or bind the books I read. Some folks may not enjoy the aspects of building the layout, but merely enjoy running the trains; therefore, that’s the hobby for them.
I enjoy all layouts whether professionally made, homemade, hi-rail, toy themed, or whatever. I can spend hours watching videos and viewing photos of all them, and I can gain ideas from all of them as well.
Joe
Yes Joe you are correct and I think my post was quite clear. I feel no need to defend what I wrote.
Demay The American Heritage Dictionary defines a hobby as: “an activity or interest pursued outside of one’s regular work and engaged in primarily for pleasure.” A good analogy would be stamp and coin collectors. They don’t make the stamps or coins, but these are hobbies people enjoy.
I looked it up too Joe, But do you think a stamp collector would hire someone to collect their stamps for them and tell them what to collect. Goes to the activity or interest pursued part.
Again JMHO
Hey Kev,
I don’t know many stamp or coin collectors, but I suppose there are some who pay people to find stamps and coins for them. I believe there are toy train collectors who pay people to find items for them as well. For them the hunt is not fun part, they relish in having and viewing their items. I believe my book reading analogy was better example. However, there are other examples in the hobby world as a whole: hunters who buy tree stands or blinds (I know hunting could be a sport and not a hobby); model builders who buy kits versus building their own from scratch; and even knitting and needlepoint hobbyists don’t typically forge their tools or spin their yarn/thread. The point is there are many aspects to our hobby and people enjoy it for different reasons.
Demay I don’t know many stamp or coin collectors, but I suppose there are some who pay people to find stamps and coins for them.
Being in the Antiques thing myself I know of 'finders' that will find any item you want...at a modest fee, of course. Happens all the time....
But if'n you all are talkin' 'bout some dude building your'n layout for you...well...you ain't a modeller.....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
With that said B.O. I think you hit the nail on the head as the saying goes and the answer is your a collector/operator and I think that is what most of us are skipping as we all know in this hobby you have collectors, opperators, and modlers now some do a little of two of the items or may even do all 3 but most stick to one or two of the items like modler/opperator or collector/modler now on the other hand you have just collectors who won't run them just admire them and then you do have some collectors/runners which want the pristeen items but also run them very carefully.
Way back when I was a coin collector with my Dad, I was in upper elementary school when I started and it actually continued through college and my first few years of teaching. It was when my Dad passed away that I lost interest in finding coins that I didn't have. I still have that collection and I don't know what to do with it, one son is kind of interested the other one not so much. Maybe Grandkids? I sure have great memories of Dad bringing home rolls of coins from the bank and we would just sit there and go through them, go through them--take them back and get some more.
It was when I was within 5 years of retirement that I reignited the O gauge spark again. We got into O gauge when the boys were young on a very limited scale (pun intended) but they lost interest so I just stowed or sold most of what I had. But when I could see my working years coming to an end I jumped back into the hobby with both feet. I basically built all the bench work my last two years of teaching and just putzed with track plans and believe me, I tried several before I finally settled on one. That first fall when I didn't go back to school I had a ball laying track, wiring track and wiring all the accessories and switches, it took me about 6 months to do all of that and to the amazement of my wife everything worked the first time!
It was also during that time that my wife who had no background in building became keenly interested in the scenery part of our layout. We would experiment with this and that and just had great fun. After my first year of retirement I took a part time job at a major live entertainment theatre, all of my commitments were basically from 4:30 PM to midnight. I would come home and find Sharyl up to her elbows in Hydrocal with the biggest smile you've ever seen, her job was high stress and this was the perfect stress reliever.
Fast forward three years and the layout was mostly done, there were months we didn't do anything but the layout waited patiently. Now it's 12 years later and we run trains for our visitors and it's a blast. Many of you have heard me say it, our greatest joy was building our layout together, running it is OK and we have fun but for us the true enjoyment was building it.
I look at the professional layouts and say "cool" and then I steal some of their ideas. I honestly don't believe theirs are that much better than ours, they have more room typically but ours is just as good. Plus we never had the $$$ to hire someone to build ours. I sure don't begrudge those folks who choose to go that route, maybe they don't have the skills or time to build what they want but they do have the love of model railroading and in the end, that's what counts.
Jon
So many roads, so little time.
Maybe those 5 people and the "man" ARE having fun. Maybe spending the time and effort to build a layout isn't their idea of fun. Maybe they don't think it's fun to run a train on a table where the buildings aren't up yet, etc. As your last sentence states "its up to you"
Almost every response to this thread has a line or two that could be used to describe someone or the whole club I belong to. I don't know that I would like a club where we all agreed on everything all the time, or even where everyone pulled their weight on every aspect of the club (were that even possible). I think part of what makes a lot of club's layouts so special is that they capitalize on each members strengths while building on their weaknesses.
J White
I have no desire whatsoever to start or be in a club-every one I've ever seen has been full of bickering and nitpicking each other's work-but I do believe in paying a professional to assist in the construction of a layout. I have seen so many model railroaders with a pile of trains in boxes to run on that layout that they are going to build "someday", next to a stack of dusty 2 X 4s and sheets of plywood leaning against a wall. I think that if we were honest with ourselves, a lot of us don't want to spend years building a layout-we want to run trains on a layout and have fun with them. I am planning a medium size layout project for this winter, and have already contracted a professional to assist with this. I tell him what I want, and we go from there. He is not there to finish the layout down to the last tree-he is there to expedite and maintain a smooth flow of construction, carpentry, and wiring. He will assist with the layout to the point where it is a complete and operating track system that is fully functional, and some very basic scenery. The rest-the finishing and fine detailing of the scenery, structures, etc-is up to me, to do at my leisure-but the whole time the layout is usable to run trains on and have fun with.
I see no clear reason why I should grow up...
I’ve been in lot’s of “clubs” and organizations in my 73 years. It started with Boy Scouts, Stamp Collecting Club, Pipers Custom Car Club, United States Coast Guard, Central Minnesota Bass Masters, and now Valley of the Sun S-Gaugers. All the above had rules, regulations, and by-laws except, the Valley of the Sun S-Gaugers.
This group of men and women, now fifteen members, after just starting less than a year ago. We are located in Phoenix, Arizona and are dedicated to S scale model railroading. We meet once a month on the 3rd Saturday of the month at a members’ home. The club is informal and welcomes American Flyer and hi-rail S gauge operators and collectors. Free membership, no dues.
I have read a lot a negative feed back on starting a model train club. We our just a group of men and women who get together to have fun operating model trains on our layouts every month. We meet at different members homes each month that have a layout or building one. We have no rules or by-laws we follow, just open discussion with “show and tell” where everyone learns a lot about model railroading. We start at 10 am and end with lunch. Sometimes we don’t break off from lunch and discussions till late afternoon.....but that is because were having fun with a great group of friends. Feel free to ask question if you want to start a model train group, for just the fun of it!
You can visit our S-Gaugers Web Site at: sgaugers.com
We have a S-Gaugers informational site at: sgaugers.blogspot.com
I also have my personnel web site, which just celebrated its 2nd Year with 48,000 visitors from 94 different counties. This web site is My American Flyer Cabinet-top Layout at: http://az-flyer.blogspot.com/
“Tell me and I’ll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I’ll understand.”
AZ-Flyer@American Flyer Cabinet-top Layout (5'x16'): http://az-flyer.blogspot.com/
I think some of it is the Pennsylvania mind set, I'm in the same boat as you, I live in Allentown PA (the East side of the state) and I have not found any Toy Train Clubs clubs that would embrace the "little guy" who wants to run some trains, work on a layout, and meet others with the same interests. Most of what we have here is geared twards super expensive O HiRail modules with command control and modern equipment. or superdetailed HO or N scale trains on unfinished plywood layouts that specialize in "correct operations"
You'd think a state with such a rich railroad history would have more acessable model train clubs.
I'm starting to see more guys from the ages of 25-35 getting into older AF & LionelPostwar Trains, I'd be thrilled to be part of a small club where a temporary toy train style layout could be built and run for for fun and less about the typical club stuff that goes on, electing officers, meetings, etc. I know you need money to pay the rent & electric but some guys take the fun of a hobby and turn it into a "members only - pay to play business"
I'd rather run a 4x8 oval at home in the living room than deal with the attitudes I got when I tried to join the local "Hi Rail O gauge club" I actually got snickered at for having an interest in restoring and operating early postwar Lionel and having no interest in MTH or Williams. What the heck?!?! Not a great way to promote the hobby to the younger generations.
The Toy Train collectors I have meet tend to worry about having the boxes & catalogs be in perfect condition and super rare , Its neat stuff to see but its not in my budget or very much fun to look at boxes stored in totes all day.
I'm happy running my scratched & dinged postwar "toys" for fun & scaring my cats, Its more fun to me than trying to impress others with the rare or expensive toys,
Its OK if thats what you love to do. I just dont like the guys who do it just to gloat about all the money they spend - That aint classy no matter what your hobby is - unless your part of the race horse or yacht club crowd LOL!
I was really excited when I found this idea http://www.thortrains.net/page20.htm but I have not been able to find anyone who knows if this idea ever got off the ground. It looks like it would be right up my alley. I sent several emails to thor trains but never heard anything back. Anyone belong to an orginazation like this? Anyone want to start one?
-Jason
I got into "trouble" a while back complaining about the way CTT used to write articles about layouts that consisted of "I always wanted a layout but I never had one as a kid, but I had a bunch of money so I had one built and here are some pictures of it." I didn't have any problems with somebody enjoying the hobby that way, but I would have thought that the articles would have been better if they had something in them for people who enjoyed other aspects of the hobby, (i.e. what are the advantages of the track plan, were any unusual construction techniques used in the construction, were there any unusual locomotives.)
Luckily the writers of CTT have realized that there are different aspects of the hobby and some enjoy collecting (I can't stand the haggling at train shows or the bidding on ebay), some enjoy electricity and its complexities (I am marginally adequate), some enjoy realistic scenery (I am an "impressionist") and some enjoy construction, repair and detailing (that's me). I usually can find something to enjoy in any issue of CTT.
I would hate being in a model railroad club. I spend most of my work time placating divas and primadonnas, that is not how I would choose to spend my hobby time.
There is enough to enjoy in the hobby that you can ignore what you don't like and do what you like and still have fun. I am surprized that some people would choose to do what I consider work in their spare time, but it takes all kinds.
Little Tommy
We see this in the collector car/street rod hobby. Folks who can afford "turn key" uinits, don't even know which end of a Crescent wrench to hold, and take first place for a fibreglas bodied, TCI-framed unit, while the ones who spend years ironing out a "steelie" get squat.
I have what amounts to a "club" layout. Folks bring their own engines and cabeese, I provide track, waybills, and rolling stock.
We do it twice a month, upwards of 9 hours at a shot. Most folks seem to enjoy themselves, as they've been coming back for almost 20 years now.
(not "0" scale or gauge)
Dave
sir james I,
I agree with you, that a layout built by someone else, though fun to play on, is not worthy of praise to the owner, who did NOT build it!!!!!
Talk about train clubs!When, I first moved into my village, I wanted to join a local 'O' gauge club, until I was grilled by the clubs president, the cost of joining and when a club member was running his train, on the clubs layout, the tender's rear truck derailed.
Another club member, who was close to the derailment, said to the proud owner of the derailed tender, that he would right the truck, with that the proud owner yelled; "Don't touch my train!!!!!" Of, which the proud owner ran from the control tower, to the derailment, affixed the tenders truck, ran back to the control tower and proceeded to run his train, like an little boy!!!!
With, that I said goodbye, only to the insulted member and I walked out, never to return!!!!Ralph-Train-O
As I would hate to be repetitive, there are a lot of similarities to other hobbies (like cars) and model trains.
If you read Hot Rod, Car Craft, Mopar Muscle, et al, there are the "dream cars" built by and for the "fortunate" among us. Then there are those that can do most of the work and "farm out" some of the more difficult tasks. Then there are the garage rats (like me) that do all of the work, either on the gravel, dirt floors or even a ramshakle garage. The same can be said of work found in CTT, OGR, Model RailRoader as well.
We all have a place in this hobby....and all hobbies. As stated before, some ideas are gleaned from everyone else's project and added to our own. The difference is that someone that had SoCal build them a street rod can only say that they paid for it. The ultimate compliment is one that comes from someone who praises the work and you know that you completed it yourself.
Craftsmanship takes many forms. Sometimes even us garage rats have work that rival those "pros". And pride in ownership comes in the form of your workmanship.
I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.I am the venom in your skin --- Breaking Benjamin
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