I recently aquired a 6466W tender, and the whistle in it isn't working. I suspect a problem with third rail pickups since they are very worn. I also see a storm of sparks when I try to get it to work, so I also suspect a short circut. Any info will help.
Thank you.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
There can be any number of problems with that tender. Does the motor rotate at all? Does the relay pick up? Have you checked the brushes and armature? Are the wires coming from the track rollers cracked and frayed? Both wires still there? Sitting still, worn rollers will not make any difference. Check all these things and get back to me.
Roger
trainrat There can be any number of problems with that tender. Does the motor rotate at all? Does the relay pick up? Have you checked the brushes and armature? Are the wires coming from the track rollers cracked and frayed? Both wires still there? Sitting still, worn rollers will not make any difference. Check all these things and get back to me. Roger
Yes, yes, yes, yes, have been replaced, they are there. I still suspect the third rail pickups...
I have tested the tender both moving and standing still, though the pickups may just be dirty. However, the shower of sparks may be from a very small loss of contact. The wear is tremendous, so I have a hard time believing that it is something else.
In your first entry, you said the tender isn't working at all. In the last, you answered yes it is. Does the tender actually whistle while its sitting still? Then not while under way? This would indicate the rollers are too worn, and or, dirty wheels and improper chassis ground on the rear truck. Many people grease this one and you should NOT do so.
Is your tender whistling but shows spark at the rollers? Do not overlook the spring tension in the roller assy either.
trainrat In your first entry, you said the tender isn't working at all. In the last, you answered yes it is. Does the tender actually whistle while its sitting still? Then not while under way? This would indicate the rollers are too worn, and or, dirty wheels and improper chassis ground on the rear truck. Many people grease this one and you should NOT do so. Is your tender whistling but shows spark at the rollers? Do not overlook the spring tension in the roller assy either. Roger
It isn't working at all for some reason, even while standing still. I assume that it would work because of the shower of sparks that come from the contact points. It wants to work, because I hear a hum while pressing the whistle button, but I don't think that it has complete contact with the center rail. I also think that dirty track, pickups, and wheels are playing a part.
Look at it without the cover off and see if the relay is picking up. If not, thats your problem. You are sure the brushes and armature are clean and free? Is it wired correctly? Do you have a greenberg manual to see?
Do you have any other tender that the whistle works? You need to rule out the transformer. Are you sure the wires coming up from each roller are good and not shorting to the frame? There is a way to bypass all the other things and test wire the motor directly. Do you know how to do that?
I performed some rewiring to simply replace some wire that had cracked and flaking isulation, with everything else seeming to check out. Other than the wires I put in, there seems to be no other indication of rewiring by someone else that could have caused the tender to not function correctly. While rewiring, I made sure that bare wire or excess solder wasn't touching the frame, causing a short.
This is my only postwar tender, so I don't know if the problem is with the transformer or the tender, but my 2026 locomotive ran like a champ with the transformer, so I think that rules out the possibility with it being in the controller.
No, I do not have a greenberg manual to see if it is for sure wired correctly.
No, I do not know how you bypass everything but the motor.
I would need to perform some other tests to see if it is truely with the relay ( I still hear noises coming from what I think is the relay, however), and everything looks to be clean and free.
In case you are wondering, my transformer is a Multi-Conrol Trainmaster, 110 RW Watt, 115 volts, 60 cycles.
The RW is a good transformer, but you cannot rule out there being a whistle control problem if you have nothing else that whistles. If you have no wiring diagram you cannot be sure you wired it back right unless you KNOW you put the wires back where they were.. You need to take the shell off and watch to see if the relay is picking up when you hit the whistle button. If so, that tells you that the transformer is ok. Olsens has a wiring diagram on line but I can never find it. Maybe someone here will share it. To do the armature test you need 3 jumper wires and alligator clips and be able to wire 2 of them to the transformer. Do your wheels have a lot of black gunk on them?
I don't see an email address for you. Send me an email to my address listed in the profile and I can send you what you need to know about whistles.
This may help you for now-
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=708
trainrat The RW is a good transformer, but you cannot rule out there being a whistle control problem if you have nothing else that whistles. If you have no wiring diagram you cannot be sure you wired it back right unless you KNOW you put the wires back where they were.. You need to take the shell off and watch to see if the relay is picking up when you hit the whistle button. If so, that tells you that the transformer is ok. Olsens has a wiring diagram on line but I can never find it. Maybe someone here will share it. To do the armature test you need 3 jumper wires and alligator clips and be able to wire 2 of them to the transformer. Do your wheels have a lot of black gunk on them?
The relay is picking up when I hit the button, so I know that there is something wrong in the tender itself. I also know that I wired it right since I only replaced the contact point wires, so I did not bite of more than I could chew. The wheels are actually spotless, though an invisible layer of gunk may be a culprit.
I actually remember reading something about how this tender worked, but I can't remember where this was or what it was called.
Read the above pages from Olsens and see if that helps. If the relay is picking up then you have armature issues, or a bad field coil, as long as ALL the wiring, including the copper field wires are there. One more thing, have you rotated the armature by hand to see if it is stuck?
trainrat Read the above pages from Olsens and see if that helps. If the relay is picking up then you have armature issues, or a bad field coil, as long as ALL the wiring, including the copper field wires are there. One more thing, have you rotated the armature by hand to see if it is stuck?
Yes, and it rotates easily.
I take it that there is something wrong in the tender itself then.
IF you got it wired back correctly, then its likely something is wrong with the armature or brushes, maybe a field problem. My guess is someone messed with it before you got it and there is a wire problem. As I said before, you can bypass the relay and ground and test it. Have you pulled the brush plate off and looked at the brushes and brush tubes? Are the brush springs there?
Rob
trainrat IF you got it wired back correctly, then its likely something is wrong with the armature or brushes, maybe a field problem. My guess is someone messed with it before you got it and there is a wire problem. As I said before, you can bypass the relay and ground and test it. Have you pulled the brush plate off and looked at the brushes and brush tubes? Are the brush springs there? Rob
I thank you for the webpage address. I think that I will be able to track down the problem using the diagrams provided. If there are still problems with the tender, I will let you know. I plan on going to Williamsport on Friday, so I can take the transformer and tender if there are future problems, and picking up some new pickups, since they are worn so much, I can't possibly imagine how they would work.
If the pickup rollers are worn badly enough you may have to replace the whole pickup assy as the holes may be too large for the pins on the new rollers.
trainrat If the pickup rollers are worn badly enough you may have to replace the whole pickup assy as the holes may be too large for the pins on the new rollers.
Thank you for that tip.
Pull the old cat and dog hair/fur(from long-dead 50+ years pets) and the tinsel, pine needles and spider webs out of the impeller with a fine tool, and use pressurized air from a compressor to clear the whistle chambers of similar debris.
Completely service the whistle motor including lubricating both ends of the armature and using new brushes after a thorough cleaning.
Your sparking rollers indicate that the tender is fine electrically, it's just drawing too much current and the motor is not spooling up fast enough(your "humming" sound), with clear chambers and impeller, to emit a whistle sound. The dry armature bushing between the impeller and the the poles is what usually causes this humming or low growl sound.
ADCX Rob Pull the old cat and dog hair/fur(from long-dead 50+ years pets) and the tinsel, pine needles and spider webs out of the impeller with a fine tool, and use pressurized air from a compressor to clear the whistle chambers of similar debris. Completely service the whistle motor including lubricating both ends of the armature and using new brushes after a thorough cleaning. Your sparking rollers indicate that the tender is fine electrically, it's just drawing too much current and the motor is not spooling up fast enough(your "humming" sound), with clear chambers and impeller, to emit a whistle sound. The dry armature bushing between the impeller and the the poles is what usually causes this humming or low growl sound.
Sorry I didn't get back to this earlier, turns out it was merely some very, very very very, VERY dirty pickup rollers, so there really wasn't anything truely wrong with the tender...
That's just how I got the tender, and the original owner just didn't make note of it.
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