New to 3 rail O, passenger car question, Original Lionel Tooling Question

[rack776]

Hi I was wondering if anyone could give me a play by play or timeline on who ended up with the the original tooling Lionel had.

I have heard many different stories on Williams, MPC, K line, and I was just wondering if anyone of the aftermarket companys are still using original postwar Lionel tooling to make trains today.

Are any of them made in the USA anymore?   I'd like to keep my postwar US made trains pulling US made cars. I know that Williams is now Bachmann which is now Chinese owned.

I am interested in a small passenger set and noticed the williams 027 streamliner cars look more like original postwar lionel cars than the actual all plastic lionel cars sold today.

Can the Williams "Luxury Lines" text be safely removed from the Williams cars paint and relettered or are they heat stamped into the plastic?

I have a very small budget, I dont know if I should I save up for a set of original postwar cars that need restoration at $60-$100 each or get a reissue set of 3 cars for about $110-$150  The MTH stuff looks great but is almost  too detailed to fit in with my older 1940s "Toy" trains.

I was also considering rebuilding a set of 1940s vintage wood/brass passenger kit cars (walthers, kmt or simmilar) and running them on Lionel trucks but it looks like they are very hard to find or are expensive, any ideas on who makes O scale kits for passenger cars today?

My Grandfather would be upset to know his old trains are pulling foriegn made cars.

Thanks for any input or advise - Jason

[rtraincollector]

Depending on exatly what you want as post war cars ( I see you mainly for Passenger cars) I would keep checking ebay I just saw a set of lionel 70's PRR passenger cars going for less than $45 at present with better than an hour left.

heres a nice set low price but 8 hrs to go Actually fair shape but you might be able to get at low price and fix up http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-POSTWAR-2430-2430-2431-PASSENGER-3-CAR-LOT-/190694727513?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2c664a9f59

[rack776]

Thanks! those are exactly what I had in mind for my 1947 675 to pull, the blue ones look great, I think they were part of an o-27 set with the 2025 right? Also all metal cars are easier to restore too.

I'm finding the original Madisons are very expensive and it is tough to find a matched set unless they are MPC era or newer.

I was looking at the plastic streamliner style to go with my 671 Turbine those might be tougher to repaint & reletter so I was considering the new repo ones.  I might keep searching before the christmass season starts hopefully I'll get a deal.

Its crazy but my local train shop only ever has prewar passenger cars when I go there!?!?!

[phillyreading]

Williams is now owned by Bachmann, a division of Sanda Kan Holdings, or all Chinese. Almost all model train companies now produce stuff in China, because cost is a main factor. PLEASE do not re-paint a current set of Williams passenger or freight cars or engines, as their original paint has to be stripped very carefully and then re-primered or the old color will bleed through. There is an article on O Gauge Trains about painting Williams Trains, I think it is in the 3 rail O/027 gauge trains.

[TRAINCAT]

Have stripped Williams F3 diesels and found no need to primer. If you strip off all the paint, how could you get bleed through? Just use the smelly type oven cleaner and have at it. Nothing special needed.

Roger

[rack776]

Thanks for the painting advise, after thinking about for awhile  it I'm going to save up for a set of original postwar pasenger cars, I'll probley wait till the local train show comes arround.

Thanks Guys!

-Jason

[cwburfle]

I have heard many different stories on Williams, MPC, K line, and I was just wondering if anyone of the aftermarket companys are still using original postwar Lionel tooling to make trains today.

I have never heard or read anything about Lionel tooling leaving their possession. It is very unlikely that Lionel let any useable tooling out of their control. In the modern era, Lionel (LTI) did sell off some paint masks, and manually operating arbor presses with the tooling still in place.

Some of the dies used by Williams and Kline did originate from Auburn Model Toys (or was it Trains?)   

[steinmike]

The tooling that is being used by companies other than Lionel has either been handed-down from other companies (as noted above) or has been newly created.  I recall reading that Williams (originally Williams Reproductions) had new tooling created for a number of Lionel post war engines and passenger cars that are nearly identical to the originals.  I have a Williams GG-1 that is externally identical to my post-war GG-1.

In the 1970's, Lionel (then a subsidiary of General Mills) made major changes to the tooling used for the short 027 passenger cars that greatly reduced the cost to manufacture them by eliminating the metal frame inside the cars among other changes) so that the Lionel 027 passenger cars made after 1970 are different than the post-war cars.  At least they were made in America and are generally affordable.  Lionel also introduced a series of scaled-down heavyweight passenger cars in the 1970's (known as "Baby Madisons") that are also usually reasonably priced.

I haven't seen O scale passenger car kits in some time.  Walthers sold off the tooling for their kits to Keil-Line Models in the 1990's - you might want to check with Walthers about that).

Good luck!

 

 

[Frank53]

rack776

I have a very small budget, I dont know if I should I save up for a set of original postwar cars that need restoration at $60-$100 each or get a reissue set of 3 cars for about $110-$150 

My Grandfather would be upset to know his old trains are pulling foriegn made cars.

You can get original Lionel 2400 series passenger cars in the range of $30-35 each. They aren't going to be perfect, but that is part of the allure of post war Lionel. Every post war train has a story and every scuff mark is a part of its history. Silver cars with red lettering in the names of Newark, Elizabeth, Clifton, and Summit are broadly available if you do some poking around. I recently saw a new set of 2400 series silver and blue Santa Fe remakes at my hobby shop for $249.00. I bought my first set of Newark/Clifton/Summit cars or $100.00 for all three. They needed a good cleaning , but I run them to this day.

The Williams are pretty much the same, but I can't get past the "Luxury Lines."

Your grandfather deserves better.