overlandflyer JamesP: ... I suppose there aren't very many people who are into Marx clockworks and 12" gauge live steam! you're right, James, ...i'm only up to 7½" gauge! :)
JamesP: ... I suppose there aren't very many people who are into Marx clockworks and 12" gauge live steam!
... I suppose there aren't very many people who are into Marx clockworks and 12" gauge live steam!
you're right, James, ...i'm only up to 7½" gauge! :)
Gary, if I am remembering right, aren't you are building a 7.5" gauge steamer? I think that puts us firmly in the same camp! Anyway, thanks for posting the M10000 motor pictures - it is much easier to see the housing for the wheel governor with the motor out of the body. How about a picture of the entire "snake"?
For anyone that has never dealt with a wheel governed Marx clockwork, it is readily apparent why Marx quickly changed to the one inside the motor... the wheel governors don't work very good! The locomotives tend to run too fast, flying off in the curves; this can be mitigated to an extent by coupling up a longer train and/or not winding the motor as tight, but it still doesn't fix the basic issue. The newer motors with the internal governor have gears that spin the gov faster than the drive axle, making it much more effective at keeping the speed in check. Also, as Gary mentioned, the wheel governors can have problems running through switches with guardrails, just like the Marx "fat wheel" single reduction electric motors... but I'll defer to those who know more about the electrics to post pictures and explanations of that.
I noticed that the 7" tin has been mentioned twice, but no pictures yet... Jason and Mike, I would love to see photos of what you have. I only have 3 pieces of 7" tin, just enough to make a train for my lone 994 reversing clockwork.
- James
JamesP ... I suppose there aren't very many people who are into Marx clockworks and 12" gauge live steam!
great CV information. to supplement your photos, here is another look at the Marx wheel-mounted governor used early on, ...this one from an M10000.
early M10000 clockwork motor w/ wheel-mounted governor
i'm sure the subject of traditional Marx with electric motors operating on contemporary track (using guard rails through switches and crossovers) will come up before long, but these early clockwork drives also posed the same running problem.
cheers...gary
Good evening all,
I do not have much to contribute, but a Marx set got me into O-27. It was one of the 7 inch sets that was made to counter Unique's line of similar cars. It had the 994 NKP engine and tender, the Wabash high wall gondola, NYC box car, and NKP 7 inch caboose with hook couplers. It used to run and probably needs some TLC to fire it up again. I will tell more about it later. Good thread. I hope it continues and perhaps CTT will do some more Marx articles in the future.
Keep on training,
Mike C. from Indiana
Trevor, you are right, I'm NorthviewRailroader on YouTube... I suppose there aren't very many people who are into Marx clockworks and 12" gauge live steam! That is a nice set, I'm sure you will find the correct transformer for a reasonable price. The green and cream is my favorite M10005 paint scheme, by the way. I don't have any Marx clockwork diesels (yet), but I'm always on the lookout!
Wow, this thread took off quicker than I expected.
Since everyone is showing off sets, here's my favorite
I actually read about this set on Walt's Marxtin site a while ago, but I could never find one for sale. When I did, it was listed on Ebay with a non-descriptive title, and I won it (dirt cheap too). The trains and box are near mint, but the transformer is missing. This is my number one favorite set, and I don't think I'd ever sell it.
Just out of curiosity, is this you James?: http://www.youtube.com/user/NorthviewRailroader If it isn't, I must of found an exact copy of you.
Trevor
Here are a couple more variations of the windup Commodore Vanderbilt:
These CV's are the two oldest I have other than the green swing-peg I posted earlier. The older is on the left; the one on the right slightly newer. How can we tell? Glad you asked!
Looking at the top, you can see there is a slight difference in the shape of the domes. On the left, is the earlier, sharper version; on the right is the later, blunter version. This happened sometime in the 1937-38 time frame, meaning that the engine on the left has to date around '36 or '37, the one on the right around '37-'38. Note that both of these locos still have screw-in keys, but the one on the left is a reproduction key, the one on the right is original.
Here is a view of the underside... note that compared to the green swing-peg CV, the governor is now located in the motor instead of behind the wheel, we now have the Marx tab-and-slot coupler instead of the swing-peg for the older Joy-Line couplers, and there isn't any cover over the bottom of the mechanism. The next change Marx made was the switch from the screw-in key to the easily removeable square key... but I'm getting ahead of myself. More CV variations to come!
I'm enjoying seeing everyone's Marx trains... neat thread.
Here's a Marx set I bought two years ago. It's set 56844, and it is probably the highest end Marx set I've got. It's an 1829 smoking and chugging engine with quite a few nice plastic cars. It has a 100 watt transformer and I think it came with wide radius track.
I remember it was two years ago because this picture is of it running on the modular club layout at the antique tractor show (which is coming up in 2 weeks). I also remember that the smokestack has a reddish orange plastic piece in it that more than one of us were concerned with as it gives off a nice "something's burning" glow from the headlight.
One of these days I'll get around to repairing or replacing the smoke unit on it.
J White
Wow Gary, that set is a treasure! Thanks for sharing the pictures. The clockwork CP and the clockwork 666 are at the top of my wish list...
i'm not sure if i have a favorite Marx set, but this one has got to be in the top 5...
similar to this Montgomery Wards set (1938), but without the C&S reefer...
clockwork set #550
the clockwork CP #3000 (with correct sparkling motor) would have been a nice find in itself, but this set has two other slightly hidden treasures...
the (551) NYC rivet tender is fairly common unless it includes the Marx logo which was apparently dropped early on in its long production run.
and with their alternate play value, finding any Marx flat car w/ the original load is usually a bonus. but of all the (562) auto flats, the sliding tab & slot coupler version is probably the rarest. with the completeness and consistent condition of this set, there is no doubt in my mind this is original Marx, but as i mentioned previously, you can probably see how easy this piece might be to fake.
sliding couplers were used with clockwork locomotives to give the engine a gradually increased load as it took off. leading a fixed coupler consist, a clockwork loco will tend to spin its wheels before gaining traction.
For a couple of examples of Marx variety, here are a two different sets that have sentimental value to me...
First up is a 25224 set:
This electric set has a Marx 999 locomotive and 3/16" scale cars. The Pennsylvania boxcar is not original to the set, it is a later addition. This train was given to my Dad for Christmas in 1954. That is the original box and instructions with the set. It also came with a bridge, 2 remote control switches, operating semaphore and enough track for a loop with passing siding and uncoupler track. The set and accessories would have orginally come packed inside a bigger cardboard box, but it did not survive Dad's childhood.
Next up is one of my sets from when I was a kid, a #2915 Meteor:
I believe I got this set in 1974. It has a controller that is powered by a 6 volt lantern battery and connects to the track with a lockon just like the AC powered trains. The cars are 4 wheel plastic, with fake trucks hiding the fact that there are just two axles per car. I still have the box, although it is in poor condition.
More to come...
I am a big fan of Marx windup trains so here are 2 videos of my MARX WINDUPS.
http://youtu.be/geJeI4_LwYc
http://youtu.be/ZgSmewtc9AA
I have been collecting Marx tinplate trains for a few years. I don't have a permanent layout so I only set them up at Christmas around the tree.
Here are videos with lots of Marx trains running under the tree from 2008
http://youtu.be/9ph4YNVsHLE
Christmas 2009
http://youtu.be/MkITpA7WZ8U
Christmas 2010
http://youtu.be/RQgr3AP-YlQ
Christmas 2011
http://youtu.be/i4ap40OKATE
I'll second Gary's comments on Walt's CD; it has an amazing amount of information about Marx 6" tin and is worth every penny. It basically functions like Walt's website, and allows the user to look up cars by type or number. If you are interested in 6" tin, you will like the CD!
As I stated before, I like the windups - or Mechanicals in Marx lingo - and 6" tin. I prefer items that are perhaps a bit rough; not only are they economical to buy, but it gives me the feeling that I have someone's treasured toy that gave them many hours of enjoyment. A plus is that I can run them without any fear of damaging a pristine piece in a mishap. With that in mind, let's look at a locomotive!
This is a Marx Mechanical #232, the Commodore Vanderbilt:
This green CV is an early pre-war locomotive. Marx was a bit of a late-comer to model trains, taking over Joy Line and beginning production in 1934. Although some reference books list Mechanical CV's as dating to 1934, the earliest period advertisement for a 232 that I have seen is 1935 (Montgomery Wards 1935 Catalog p. 18-19)... earlier advertisements still advertise Joy Line clockworks. The first Marx trains used the old Joy Line coupler, so the first 232 had what is referred to as a swing-peg coupler that mated with the Joy Line couplers:
The first CV had other distinctive features besides the swing-peg coupler. The governor was located behind one of the front wheels - this was moved to inside the motor in '36. Some have a cover over the bottom of the motor, but this feature was discontinued by the second year, also:
The windup motor featured a small grinding wheel with a flint that threw sparks out the stack, as well as a bell that dinged as the locomotive ran down the track. The sparker was used for many years, up to the advent of plastic shell Marx locomotives, and the bell was retained to the end of Marx production. A screw in key was used for the first few years of Marx production, as well as 10 spoke diecast drivers. The first CV's were available in Black, Red, Green and Silver. The early headlight bezel pointed up at an angle, then an angled bezel was used so it was level, and finally the body was recessed in 1936 so the original type of bezel would sit level.
There are a myriad of other details and variations in the mechanical CV's, but I think I've rambled on long enough for this post!
rack776 This site has alot of good information, but you must pay to see all of it, I think it is a CD that you buy. http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin.htm
This site has alot of good information, but you must pay to see all of it, I think it is a CD that you buy.
http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin.htm
Walt's Marxtin site is mostly filled with the unusual and rare Marx cars and sets; he has since produced the Definitive Guide CD which is a much more valuable aid to collecting 6" Marx tin (and i also think he has a Marx Plastic guide out now, too). this CD lists & pictures most known Marx pieces also giving each car a common, scarce or rare rating. it is well worth the money for information it contains. last i looked the out of print Greenberg Marx Volume I, the only other popular reference for 6" tin, sells in the $100+ range and contains numerous known errors.
I have a later Marx set from about 1950, the bigger 7" car Nickel Plate Road set, all the cars are well worn track is shot and no box, but it is the set my Grandfather bought for my dad when he was a kid....its priceless....and after I replaced a bad gear it still runs great! I love Tin Plate, Great thread!
-Jason
tjl0824 Gary- Are all those boxcars yours? I noticed that blue CN&W car has an off-centered door, which proves that almost nothing was wasted as long as it still served it's purpose.
Gary- Are all those boxcars yours? I noticed that blue CN&W car has an off-centered door, which proves that almost nothing was wasted as long as it still served it's purpose.
yes, i'm afraid that's what happens when you've been at it for a few decades. since those portraits, i've actually added about 4 more. yes, errors in the litho registration do happen, though that door was a rather extreme case. typically most collectors regard litho registration errors as undesirable pieces, though.
with later multicolor boxcars, the colors remain constant (sort of) but a variety of car numbers (usually 16) were produced.
as you can see by this proof sheet showing 15 different NYC Pacemaker boxcars, Marx had very little QC regarding color formulas. none of these cars has faded gray paint; the shades ranged from very light to moderately dark.
James- I look forward to seeing what you have! 6 inch is my main interest, although I don't a single wind-up engine yet.
My camera isn't co-operating with me, so I'll have to wait to post pictures.
Trevor, Glad you started this thread! My taste in Marx runs toward the windups and 6" tin. I'll share some items from my limited collection in the future, but for now I would like to post a link for anybody that likes Marx 6" tin:
The site itself is an excellent reference for all things Marx, and the CD is a "must-have" if you are interested in 6" tin.
Just for fun, here is a well-worn example of the Marx Commodore Vanderbilt, a reversing clockwork version that was probably built sometime in the 1939-1941 time period (single dome body was introduced around '39, reversing mechanical motor was last sold in the CV in '41). It has a #551 6" Coffin Tender:
Let's see some more Marx trains!
probably the best information i can give anyone who wants to collect Marx tin is the old adage of "Buyer Beware". Marx 6in tin cars are likely one of the easiest to manipulate the rearranging of parts. almost all frames and car bodies have the exact same 6-tab construction and many Marx pieces that never existed out of the factory can be constructed with the only tool needed being a rugged fingernail. even the Greenberg text contains a number of these hybrids.
with Marx locomotives, the same practice is also seen. almost all Marx motors follow the same form-fit even between clockwork and electric versions.
...gary
When it comes to collecting classic tinplate trains, the trains made by Louis Marx are the best choice. They are easily obtainable, very affordable, and practically bullet proof.
For years, Marx trains have been looked down upon greatly by Lionel collectors. I myself never really had an interest in Marx, until a little while back, when I got hooked. I picked up a boxed set of Marx trains at a garage sale, and decided to do a little research to see if it was worth anything. As I looked through past auctions on Ebay, I realized the endless amounts of colorful tin cars, and that someone could buy twenty different cars for the same price I was paying for a single Lionel locomotive. So, that's exactly what I started doing.
My goal is to establish an entire thread dedicated to Marx. I welcome anyone to share their knowledge and collections of Marx. Whether you would like to share a single piece, a set, or everything you own, it is all appreciated. I also encourage anyone with questions to ask anything you would like.
I am quite confident that something will be learned by everyone.
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