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Who pays for the use of RR names and logos?

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Posted by AF1963 on Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:57 PM

and this:

http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/releases/heritage_and_steam/2006/1108_mth.shtml

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Posted by AF1963 on Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:50 PM

So the courts intervened and it was not a voluntary agreement between the model companies and Union Pacific.  It would interesting to read a synopsis of the decision.

And I found it:

http://mrr.trains.com/en/sitecore/content/Home/News%20and%20Reviews/MR%20Express/2006/11/MTH%20negotiates%20new%20Union%20Pacific%20licensing%20deal%20for%20all.aspx

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Posted by PARTSGUY on Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:45 PM

Yeah, I remember this fiasco. Union Pacific said, and I quote from an article written in Model Railroader magazine that "they didn't want their company's logo displayed on junk". By the time this whole thing got anywhere, retailer's were looking for a $5.00 surcharge to be added to the cost of any engine or piece of rolling stock decorated with the complaining class 1's logos.

What utter nonsense. What corporate "yes man" saw any examples of model trains that in his eyes qualified as JUNK? Seem's that a company so successful in making hundreds of millions of dollars a year in profit's would even stoop this low. How much money did they think they were going to try and strong arm out of the hobby industry by doing this?

Kudo's to Mike Wolfe and the president's of the other affected manufacturers in taking these corporate bullies to court in a successful lawsuit. 

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Posted by AF1963 on Sunday, June 24, 2012 9:00 AM

So they don't pay for the rights, just just have to ask for permission.  Thast makes sense, especially for fallen flags that really have little commercial value outside of the nostalgia market.

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Posted by overlandflyer on Sunday, June 24, 2012 6:18 AM

from AsterUSA...

4/6/2010 UP Challenger survey ended. ... Negotiations with Union Pacific Railroad in Omaha NE are in progress to obtain the trademark licensing permit required for model manufacturers. 

4/13/2010 Union Pacific Railroad Company grants Limited Production and Trademark Certificate to Aster Hobby. Nothing in the way now to go forward with the project.

 

at least with UP, there are still apparently some agreements that need to be addressed before production.  of course, Aster is a Japanese Co., so perhaps that had some bearing.

not only names & logos, but often colors are also copyrighted.

cheers...gary

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Posted by Seayakbill on Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:40 PM

Neither, as stated earlier, approx 5 or 6 years ago one or more RR's attempted to collect royalties from all the train manufactures for the use of their names. I believe it was Lionel and Atlas that agreed to pay a royalty to those RR's for the use of their names. Mike Wolf of MTH met with representatives of the RR's in question and came to terms that MTH and other manufactures would be able to use the RR's names without paying any royalties.

Bill T.

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Posted by AF1963 on Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:47 PM

So how does it work?  Does Norfolk Southern pay Lionel or the other way round? Confused

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:29 PM

As I recall the flap over royalties from railroad heralds on toy trains started with Union Pacific, and yes, great credit is due to Mike Wolf of MTH for straightening it out to everyone's satisfaction.  The whole thing was such an embarassment I wouldn't be surprised if someone at UP lost their job over it, it certainly didn't make UP look good.

I can't help but think if Joshua Lionel Cowen was faced with the same situation he would have said...

"What?  You don't like all the free advertising and publicity I'm giving you?  OK boys, I'll tell you what.  You wanna see your name on my trains from now on, I'm not gonna pay YOU, YOU'RE gonna pay ME!"

Kids that grow up on the streets of New York don't take any crap from anyone!

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Posted by hscsltb on Saturday, June 23, 2012 2:49 PM

CTT had an article about the prewar 1680 tank cars some time ago.Shell had replaced Sunoco for a couple of years before WW2.That ended when the *** over ran Europe and the Japanese captured the oil fields in the far east. Interesting how world events can even affect toy production.

Harold Brown
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Posted by AF1963 on Friday, June 22, 2012 9:13 PM

Although I was thinking more in terms of the railroad companies, such as Amtrak, Pennsylvania, PennCentral, Conrail, Southern Pacific, BNSF, etc. it would make sense for a company like Sunoco to want the advertising.

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Posted by hscsltb on Friday, June 22, 2012 8:34 PM

I believe I read something a while back where companies paid to have their names put on the trains.Curtis Baby Ruth ,Shell and Sunoco come to mind.

Harold Brown
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Posted by lionelsoni on Friday, June 22, 2012 7:11 PM

Santa Fe, New York Central, and General Motors paid Lionel to put their names on the early F3s.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, June 22, 2012 6:29 PM

There was a big deal over this about 3 to 5 years ago and MTH is given a lot of credit of getting it straightened out. as BNSF and a couple others wanted royalties for using there names thats where the first heritage series came from with UP I think it was. In fact for a period you had to pay a premium to buy an engine with that name on it seems like this was back in 2007 the more I think about it. Maybe 2006.

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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Who pays for the use of RR names and logos?
Posted by AF1963 on Friday, June 22, 2012 6:12 PM

When a company such as Lionel, MTH, or, long ago, Gilbert, received permission to produce an engine or car with a railroad's name and logo on it did they pay the railroad for the rights or did the railroad pay the toy train manufacturer for the free publicity?

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