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MTH buys S-Helper Service, enters S gauge

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Posted by stebbycentral on Monday, June 4, 2012 8:12 PM

lionelsoni

Seven-eighths inch is 42 inches, or 3 1/2 feet, in 1/48 (O) scale, not 40 inches. 

I told you I don't do math on Monday morning. Big Smile

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, June 4, 2012 10:43 AM

Seven-eighths inch is 42 inches, or 3 1/2 feet, in 1/48 (O) scale, not 40 inches.  This is a very common prototype gauge around the world, particularly in Japan, Africa, and New Zealand, but, except for the San Francisco cable cars, not so much in the US.  If it were 40 inches, that is very close to 1 meter (about 39 3/8 inches) which is even more popular worldwide and even less popular in the US.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by stebbycentral on Monday, June 4, 2012 7:08 AM

I'll leave the fine calculations to someone who's brain works on Monday morning, but On30 track is  5/8" actual inches between railheads, and On36 is 3/4".  S scale track is 7/8" between railheads, which would scale up to On40".  That is not a real guage that I am aware of, at least not in North America. 

Still only the purists object to the current practice of running 3ft guage equipment on On30 track.  So it all depends upon how fussy you are about that extra 1/8th of an inch.  This would probably be a project that you could do quite easily by using a Flyer model 21088 or 21089 American-class locomotive.  They were oversized for S-scale anyway.  You could use O-scale narrow guage equipment on S-scale trucks.

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Posted by Boyd on Monday, June 4, 2012 12:19 AM

If you measured the gauge of S scale track in O scale, how many scale feet and inches does it come out to? I wouldn't mind seeing some company make hi-rail narrow gauge in O scale. I think it would be interesting.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:23 AM

If they use only the name :"The S Scale Showcase Line", they will have a fine name for the products offered.

Andrew

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:21 AM

MTH needs to have as the first new S Scale rolling stock additions to the line the PS-1 40' Box Cars and the PS-1 50' Box Cars with all the various door configurations ever used.

Andrew Falconer

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Posted by Boyd on Sunday, June 3, 2012 1:47 AM

Are they going to change the name? I always thought the name was odd,, as in the "Helper" part of the name. I'm sure they have great products but now and then I see business names or advertisements that make me scratch my head in wonderment as to what is attractive about it. I don't mean to offend anyone. Just my 2 cents. Good luck to MTH as I think its good to have multiple players in the field of hi-rail trains.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Friday, June 1, 2012 1:32 PM

The knuckle heights for O, S, HO, and N scale couplers are .229, .172, .126, and .069 inches, respectively.

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Posted by stebbycentral on Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:00 PM

arkady

 LittleTommy:

 

 Seayakbill:

 

I just saw a SW type switcher with the knuckle coupler. I am guessing that this is the industry standard coupler for the modern S Gauge. The coupler looked gigantic compared to the small SW type switcher. MTH needs to go with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks.

 

 

 

Well, Bill, about 90% of the sales of S are to folks that have large flanged locomotives and cars and large American Flyer Compatable couplers.   If MTH goes with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks, they will lose 90% of their potential buyers.  S is not a big enough market to make that kind of move.   It is far easier to make locomotives and cars that can be back converted the other way.  Offering scale wheel sets and making the car or loco with a  mounting pad that allows the modeler a way to install scale couplers are a quick and easy fix. 

I'd go the other way with that.  I've never had any real problem with AF wide flanges, but the coupler size always turned me off.  Going with deep flanges but allowing the easy installation of closer-to-scale couplers would be great.

 

You know, moving to S from N-scale, I really never noticed the difference.  In N-scale every coupler is oversized, de facto.  In fact the first time I saw a "scale" S-scale coupler I was convinced someone had thrown in an HO coupler by mistake. 

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Posted by arkady on Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:22 PM

LittleTommy

 

 Seayakbill:

 

I just saw a SW type switcher with the knuckle coupler. I am guessing that this is the industry standard coupler for the modern S Gauge. The coupler looked gigantic compared to the small SW type switcher. MTH needs to go with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks.

 

 

 

Well, Bill, about 90% of the sales of S are to folks that have large flanged locomotives and cars and large American Flyer Compatable couplers.   If MTH goes with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks, they will lose 90% of their potential buyers.  S is not a big enough market to make that kind of move.   It is far easier to make locomotives and cars that can be back converted the other way.  Offering scale wheel sets and making the car or loco with a  mounting pad that allows the modeler a way to install scale couplers are a quick and easy fix. 

I'd go the other way with that.  I've never had any real problem with AF wide flanges, but the coupler size always turned me off.  Going with deep flanges but allowing the easy installation of closer-to-scale couplers would be great.

 

 

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Friday, May 25, 2012 1:20 AM

11th Street

Further diversification, further diversion of attention from the product lines that established the company. Any undergraduate Business School student can recite a litany of fallen firms that went down that path. Angry  Crying

The problem with diversification by other companies is that they did not retain any of the previous employees or hire new employees who were familiar with the company. This is not a huge leap of product line for MTH, what they need though are more employees in Columbia, MD and in China to do the work on all the product lines. If they are understaffed, then the company will suffer.

A merger is pointless if there are no employees available to do the work.

Andrew Falconer

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Friday, May 25, 2012 1:15 AM

The S-Helper Service The Showcase line items are excellent. Great to see their production will be continuing.

Andrew Falconer

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Posted by LittleTommy on Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:24 PM

Seayakbill

I just saw a SW type switcher with the knuckle coupler. I am guessing that this is the industry standard coupler for the modern S Gauge. The coupler looked gigantic compared to the small SW type switcher. MTH needs to go with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks.

Well, Bill, about 90% of the sales of S are to folks that have large flanged locomotives and cars and large American Flyer Compatable couplers.   If MTH goes with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks, they will lose 90% of their potential buyers.  S is not a big enough market to make that kind of move.   It is far easier to make locomotives and cars that can be back converted the other way.  Offering scale wheel sets and making the car or loco with a  mounting pad that allows the modeler a way to install scale couplers are a quick and easy fix.  

If MTH can put the sound and sound packages that they put in their HO gauge engines into an S gauge product, they will sell a lot of product.  It will be especially nice if they can make modestly sized locomotives with those features as they will fit better on the small layouts that most of us have.

 Lionel, instead, tries to "smush"  their O gauge sound, smoke and control packages into S by making huge articulated engines, and locos with unattached pilots, or relies on a seuthe type smoke generator that burns out easily in their Mikados and Pacifics.   A modest sized layout can only run so many articulated locos.  One can sell a lot more $300-$500 locomotives in the current economic climate than they can sell $1000.00 Locomotives. 

Little Tommy

 

 

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Posted by 11th Street on Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:03 PM

Further diversification, further diversion of attention from the product lines that established the company. Any undergraduate Business School student can recite a litany of fallen firms that went down that path. Angry  Crying

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:00 PM

Carolina Road

Rich,

A "helper" is a locomotive or a group of locomotives that help push a heavy train over a steep grade. Therefore "helper service" is common railroad jargon in mountainous or operating areas that had steep grades.  S Helper Service mission was to "push" S gauge/scale forward in offering new products that are on par or better than what is offered in other scales.

The Sandra Kan fiasco had really hurt them and with the owners of the company nearing retirement, it was time to sell. I wish them the very best.

Robyn

Robyn,

Thanks for that explanation.  I appreciate it.

Rich

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Posted by Carolina Road on Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:51 AM

Rich,

A "helper" is a locomotive or a group of locomotives that help push a heavy train over a steep grade. Therefore "helper service" is common railroad jargon in mountainous or operating areas that had steep grades.  S Helper Service mission was to "push" S gauge/scale forward in offering new products that are on par or better than what is offered in other scales.

The Sandra Kan fiasco had really hurt them and with the owners of the company nearing retirement, it was time to sell. I wish them the very best.

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Posted by Carolina Road on Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:36 AM

Seayakbill,

 

S Helper Service offered their products where the parts to convert from High-Rail To Scale were offered in the same package (The only exception was the 2-8-0 steamer). Also, SHS had a "Kadee clone" scale coupler in their product line.

SHS's products were high quality,. Let's hope that MTH keeps the tradition alive.

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Posted by sir james I on Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:19 AM

With the MTH PS3 board S-Helper engines will get new sounds. I am just wondering though if MTH isn't spreading itself a little thin. Some say O ga sales are down and that might be true but I would think sale's in the other sizes would be down as well.

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Posted by Seayakbill on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:44 PM

If I was getting into the electric train hobby today I would seriously consider S Gauge. Lionel has been putting out some nice stuff the past few years and now with MTH jumping in it can only get a whole bunch better.

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Posted by arkady on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:17 PM

All this attention to S scale recently is interesting.  It seems that more than one manufacturer sees some significant potential in S.  Somewhere, A.C. Gilbert must be smiling.

Seayakbill

I just saw a SW type switcher with the knuckle coupler... The coupler looked gigantic compared to the small SW type switcher. MTH needs to go with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks.

I agree.  Nonscale Lionel couplers don't look so bad on an O model, especially of the semi-scale variety. But Flyer-style couplers just look enormous on an S scale model.

 

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Posted by Bob Keller on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:32 PM

You can place scale wheels and couplers on the SHS locomotives (and many came with the scale wheels  in the box), but from what I've been told over the years, more S gaugers than S scalers buy S gauge products. You would also get into backward compatibility issues. As with O gauge, it is better to let the customers and the market decide what they want.

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Posted by Seayakbill on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:00 PM

I just saw a SW type switcher with the knuckle coupler. I am guessing that this is the industry standard coupler for the modern S Gauge. The coupler looked gigantic compared to the small SW type switcher. MTH needs to go with scale couplers right out of the starting blocks.

Bill T.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:12 AM

I never have understood the company name - - - S-Helper Service.

What exactly does that mean, anyhow?

Rich

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Posted by Seayakbill on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 5:47 AM

Does this company use a more traditional or even scale knuckle couplers. I always thought the American Flyer S Gauge couplers were cumbersome.

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Posted by RRaddict on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:22 PM

Hopefully they will make S gauge trains as affordable as their O gauge trains are so even more people an enjoy this scale as of right now a quality S gauge set is very high.

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Posted by Seayakbill on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:32 PM

Don't think Lionel got K-Line. Lionel leased K-Line tooling from Sandi Kan for a few years. When Kader Industries ( parent company of Bachmann ) acquired Sandi Kan a couple years ago they received the K-Line tooling also. Now Williams by Bachmann is using some of the K-Line Tooling but is also leasing out some of the K-Line Tooling. RMT has started using a lot of that tooling, their latest catalog looks like a mini K-Line catalog.

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Posted by overall on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:22 PM

Our hobby used to be sort of a cottage industry, but now everybody is buying up everbody else. Lionel got K-line, Bachmann got Williams Trains and now this. I guess that's the way it goes.

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Posted by cbtrainnut on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 12:25 PM

THis is Awesome. MTH please don't cheapen the S-Helper line of track. it is the best on the market!  Look out lionel! 

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Posted by Bob Keller on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 12:05 PM

Three, counting American Models.

Bob Keller

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