New Williams items

[phillyreading]

Williams has added some new items to their line-up or soon will add, GP-30's, a new Platinum Clubcar for 2012; Plasticville Cement hopper. E Z Streets is now out, formerly by K-Line, Super Streets.

[sir james I]

I saw and heard the new GP30 at York, the new diesel sound is a welcome addition. It sounded good to me. Estimated street price is around $225.

[Seayakbill]

With the quality issues of some of Lionel's conventional locos Williams should be in a pretty good position to capture some of that market.

[nblum]

Bill, what evidence are you using that Lionel has quality problems with its conventional locos?  Hopefully not the occasional lemon or the rantings of the occasional lunatic on the O Gauge Forum :).  I haven't heard of any systematic problems in quality with any of the manufacturers at present. 

I'd be surprised if Williams by Bachmann accounts for more than 5% of three rail sales now or anytime soon. They are a niche player with nice products for their price range, but Lionel is so dominant in the starter set market and conventional stuff, thanks to brand recognition and a wide dealer network and product line.  I think the repeated claims of Williams ascendancy since Bachmann took over are largely wishful thinking by those who dislike or resent Lionel for some reason.

[overall]

I have had trouble with their conventional classics locos. I will not be buying ant more of them.

George

[fifedog]

A healthy LIONEL = a healthy hobby.

That being said, WILLIAMS engines continue to be the best bang for the buck.  More paint schemes, reliable can motors, at a blue-collar price. 

...now if they could only get away from the stamped metal handrails...

[Seayakbill]

Neil, the modern Lionel conventional Alcos and Generals have had their issues. I sent back to Lionel 2 Alcos, one was over heating and the other was missing a bearing that caused erratic operation. Could be they were just isolated instances for me but I have read of similar issues with these locos on other forums.

IMO, when Lionel stopped using Sandi Kan / Kader Industries as a manufacture a couple years ago the quality issues escalated with their new manufacture.

I have no idea what percentage of total American sales Williams by Bachmann has but per Kader Industries the Williams by Bachmann brand had an excellent year last year and was a major contributor to their $115,000 000 in sales for their electric train division. Kader Industries received the license for distribution of Thomas the Tank electric trains for sales in Europe and Asia beginning this year which should really help in future growth of their electric train business.

[RRaddict]

I agree that Williams trains are a great value and great runners but when you do need parts they suck rocks through a straw.  The only lemon I have ever got from Lionel is the General other than that Lionel still doing great I just can't afford their Legacy line or anything with TMCC while you can get MTH with DCC in their starter sets.

[nblum]

My experience with current Lionel conventional locos is limited, but truly excellent with the Hogwarts and Shakespeare sets, and several conventional LCCA recent issues.  I'm sure the disruptions in production caused by the Sanda Kan shift aren't an asset, but having some of your competition make your trains isn't a good long term idea either. 

 

I would note that reports on forums are notoriously unreliable because the largest number of reports of failures is of course primarily for Lionel with MTH 2nd, which is exactly the volume relationship.  Lionel probably sells two or three  or four locos for every MTH loco, and of course, MTH makes virtually no conventional locos.  But those two account for most of the complaints by far, for obvious reasons. 

 

Williams and Atlas failures are rarely reported because they don't make nearly as many locos as Lionel and MTH, and they probably account for less than 10% of total three rail loco sales, maybe much less.  On the other hand, Lionel probably sells 90% or more of the conventional locos sold, primarily through their set sales.  Nobody sells remotely (pun intended) as many conventional locos as Lionel.  Williams and RMT are a drop in the bucket by comparison. Thus we'd expect Lionel to account for 90% of the failures as well. 

 

I think the current conventional wisdom of Lionel having significant quality problems (as opposed to the occasional lemon item, or individual failure) are most likely statistical artifact and folks who are quoting this as reality are misleading.  There is still a number of hobbyists and some dealers who wish to see Lionel painted in the worst possible light because they favor other manufacturers.  I think people should factor that into their experience on the internet.  I do :).

 

Parenthetically, how ironic is it that Bachmann, the least reliable manufacturer in N and HO in my experience is being touted for their superior quality?  I know they've improved significantly, but I remain completely unimpressed with their HO and N quality.  They are consistently the low price leader but also the least respected for quality as far as I can tell.  In contrast, Williams has recently (but not always during their early history) had a good reputation for value and quality, and the Williams locos I've owned have been both good value for money and run just fine.  They clearly don't operate the way command locos do and have truly second rate sounds, which I expect will continue to be their market niche: conventional without cruise/command and with relatively primitive sounds.

[srguy]

My 2 cents .... I bought a couple of Williams engines in the past year and for th most part they perform well with minor issues like stiff couplers which is an easy fix with a little oil. I did have an FM with a bad pick-up roller .... went online and ordered it ... 3 bucks plus 5 for shipping (ouch!!!) post mark was $1.10 ... oh well. Couldn't be simpler ... didn't even have to speak with anyone ... how nice.

[SPMan]

I was impressed with the presentation by WBB at York which I saw on you tube.  They are coming out with a digital sound system which is better sounding than Tru Blast and can be retrofitted easily.  Also got an eye on their new GP30 in ACL black and yellow.  I hope they will do the NS heritage diesels at some point.  They are in the process of adding better details to their diesels like better looking hand rails for one thing.  All of my Williams engines have run great for years and are virtually bullet proof.  Time will tell on WBB.  I have their new 4-6-0 steam engine and NS executive F unit A-B-B-A set and they look and run great.  They have simulated ditch lights with decals but some guys have drilled these out and added LED's.

Ray