I have just overhauled an American Flyer 481 Silver Flash Alco Locomotive. Is there a procedure for adjusting the set screws in the brass clamp/yoke to get the motor field properly centered over the armature so that the motor will turn? Surely there is a simple yet reliable process for doing this adjutment. I have spent a couple of hours of trial an error and still have not gotten the armature to turn relaiblely and smoothly but for a very short time.
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Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
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Welcome to the board!
The service manual does not give any specific instructions how to do this. It just says to use the set screws to center the magnet [field] over the armature. After the field is centered, I would think that both set screws would then be tightened evenly to keep the field from moving. If you are not tightening the screws, the field may move slightly, causing the armature to strike it. Is this the problem you are having?
Larry
Larry,
I have moved both screws various amounts and was unable to get the motor to turn smoothly as it should. Of course, after a couple of hours of trial and error, my patience was gone. The set screws are in the inner brass clamp/yoke. By the time you remove the outer truck mounting yoke assemble, ajdust the set screws on the inner clamp, put it back together and set it on the track to see if it it runs correctly, the time passes fairly quickly. Sounds like I just need to keep trying as there is no "magic" procedure for this critical adjustment. Makes you wonder how the "factory" did it in a production setting..had to be a quick adjustment process considering they produced thousands of these motor/truck assemblies.
Thanks for your response!
Did you tighten the setscrews to insure the field would not move? Another possibility may be that the armature bearings may be worn, allowing the armature to wobble a bit. When you place the armature in the truck frame, is there any play in the armature bearings? If there is play in the armature bearings, no amount of adjustment of the field will compensate for it.
What exact symptoms are you experiencing? Is the armature hitting the field? Can you see if the armature is spinning true or if it wobbles a bit? Need a little more detail if you can explain your symptoms.
Last night I continued working on the motor. I moved the set screws several times. Some times the armature would nor turn at all. The best I did was I got it to run about two feet (on track) before it stopped running. I did notice some sparking from the motor truck wheels as it ran. Once it stopped running, the reverse unit would "chatter" and not cycle. I don't believe the armature bushings are the problem...did not notice any "wobble" in them when I had the motor disassembled for cleaning and lubrication. I have several new armature bushings and if they were easy ro replace I would, just to take that potential problem off the board. But with the worm gears being soldered on the armature shaft, I am reluctant to try and remove them.
The problem with the set screw adjustment is that you cannot get a full view of the fit of the armature laminations within the field laminations. I will continue the "adjustment" saga tonight.
Again, thanks for your assistance.
The reverse unit not cycling is not a good sign. Unsolder all the reverse unit wires from the motor field and brushes to isolate the motor completely. Get a short jumper wire and connect one field wire to one brush terminal. Put the truck assembly up on a block of wood, and connect the 2 transformer wires to the remaining field wire and brush terminal. The motor should run steady, and you can better visualize what is happening with the motor truck stationary. Try running at a low voltage first, see if it continues to run, then slowly increase voltage to spin the motor faster. The centering of the field coil should not be super critical. Even if the field coil is not 100% centered, the motor should still run as long as the armature does not physically hit the field assembly. With the truck up on a block, you don't even need to screw the yoke in place. You should be able to hold the field assembly by hand and get the motor to run. Then you can move the field assembly back and forth to see if or how it affects performance.
You may have a reverse unit issue also, or a faulty reverse unit may be misleading you to believe you have a motor issue. Isolate the motor and get it to run properly as stated above, then you can move on and reassemble the loco and see if you have any other problems.
Thanks for the advice. I will spend some quality time with this locomotive this weekend trying to isolate the real problem as you recommended in your response. I need to note that the reverse unit does cycle until the motor seems to lockup. I just wish I had attempted to run this locomotive prior to taking it apart for the overhaul...I acquired it in a small Flyer collection late last year and did not attempt to run any of the locomotives prior to complete dissassembly and overhaul. The five steam locos all work just fine after the overhauls and smoke unit rebuids which included three tenders with bellow type smoke units. I have collected mainly Lionel the past 35 years but also appreciate the Flyer trains...the smoke units are a lot better than Lionels! However, overall engineering and quality is definitely on Lionel's side..but they also cost more when new.
I have tried adjusting those set screws while running the motor on a roller set on my workbench, the ones they manufacture so you can run your engine in place. It's pretty much trial and error if you ask me.
It's my observation the engineering tolerances on the Flyer stuff is not nearly as fine as on old Lionels so it's kind of a "close enough" deal. Please, not trying to steam any die-hard Flyer people. But once those set screws are fiddled with (my own term for my work), an ok motor may never be the same.
Flyer is a different animal than Lionel on the bench but , like yourself, I really like them both...and some things about Flyer I like better than Lionel.
I do like those test rollers though, and I use them (both O and S gauge) all the time.
Best of luck!
Larry, I partially followed your recommendation and removed the front truck from the chassis. ( I left the wires connected to the field and brushes for my first attempt.) When I removed the truck mounting yoke and the inner brass field centering yoke, I noticed that they both fit over the truck VERY tightly..they were both "sprung inward" whick caused a tight fit. I bent them outward to relieve that tightness to were they both fit in the mounting slots with just slight tension. I then mounted the inner yoke and attached it with 6-32x 1/4inch machine screws. I then tightened the set screws. I then applied power and noticed it ran pretty good but eventually stopped. I then adjusted the set screws slightly and the motor ran smoothly both forward and reverse directions. I reassembled the truck to the chassis and it runs just fine..in both directions.
Thanks for your help.
Mr. S
Thanks for your response. I should have purchased a roller test stand years ago as I can see where they would be very handy for repairs and touble shooting.
I have overhauled a lot of Lionel locomotives over the past 35 years. They were truly engineered to last a life time with normal maintenance....at least till they cheapened many new items in the 1960s.
American Flyer also made some great items and the scale realism is very good...especially the Alco locomotives. It is a shame that they didn't install seperate axle bearings/bushings in them for their entire production life. Many of the Flyer accessories also outshine Lionels'...like the sawmill , oil drum loader and seaboard coaling tower.
Your welcome.
I am glad that you got your locomotive to run properly, and hope you have many years of use out of it.
Happy railroading!
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