Has anyone seen..........

[eZAK]

I was stopped at a crossing today when a UP coal train came by.
It was headed by 1 engine followed by 70 or 80 fully loaded cars. AND they were followed by another engine facing backwards and running.
Assuming pushing?

Has anyone ever seen this consist?

I havn't!

I've seen plenty of double & triple heading but never with an unmanned engine pushing at the back.

This is Illinois, near Chicago, mind you, No grades to speak of here.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Is there a power plant near by that would be taking delivery of the coal? The reason I ask is I have seen a similar critter, only the one near me has 3 engines on the front and 2 on the back most of the time.

The way it works around here is, the train comes out of St Paul heading east with a crew at each end. It comes down a steep grade, which is why they have more than one engine. At the bottom of the hill there is a switch off the main, so the crew that was on the back is now in the lead.

The power plant's yard is single ended. Some of the tracks have empties, and some of the tracks have cars yet to be unloaded. The engines that were on the back and lead the way into the plant uncouple and get out of the way, while the ones that lead on the way out do the switching, dropping off the loads and picking up the empties. Then they put it all back together, and get back out to the main, where the crew that was on the back on the way out leads the way home.

The back engine isn't so much about the power to push, it's about being on the right end to do the work and facing the right way for the return trip.

[lionelsoni]

We get lots of empty northbound UP coal trains through Austin, always with two SD70s on the point and one pushing. The cars are about 130 rotary-dump bathtub gondolas. There is only one crew. The radio control for the pusher is on the FRED frequencies and makes a complicated sound very distinct from the usual FRED signals.

[wrmcclellan]

eZAK,

BNSF is doing the same thing. They were frequently breaking couplers on the long heavy unit trains (particularly in CO), so distributing power either in the center or the end of the train reduces this risk and the attendant repair delays. This is not always the most efficient use of power, but the savings is in keeping the track open.

The term used by the RRs is "distributed power" (DP) with radio control (450 MHz band - RR dedicated frequencies) and monitoring of brake pipe pressure as backup. Commands to the remote trailing units may be often or not, depending upon the terrain. The trailing units run at the last command until told differently by the radio or a change in brake pipe pressure. The DP system has proven to be very reliable over the last several years and thus is being used more often.

The unit trains, particularly coal, tend to be maintained as a unit, so the power stays with the train even after it has come out of terrain such as the WY Powder River Basin area. We see the same here in the Dallas Ft. Worth area. BNSF run trains continuously from WY to TX via CO for TXU coal fired plants here.

Regards.

[eZAK]

That's very interesting guys!
Thanks.

We have Two large coal fired power plants, ....5 operating nukes, and 7 nat. gas peaker sites. If that aint enuff we also have 3 co / gens(nat. gas & coal combine).

So I've seen plenty of coal trains, BNSF & UP, but never with an engine at the rear.
They are all bathtub gondolas and apear to be rotary dump. (painted ends)
I would like to see the unloading operation.

I also find it amazing that each and every load is exacty the same.
Also the coal used at these plants is supposed to be 70% homegrown.

Thanks again guys.

[cbojanower]

I believe this called Divided Power, the UP uses it on the coal trains here in Utah to get them through Weber Canyon into Wyoming. From what I understand the lead train remotely controls the rear engines.