EIS2 AZ-Flyer, Thank you for the reply. I did a google search on MicroScale Micro Flat and I found mixed reviews on the product. The complaints were a yellowing of the finish and a failure to harden. It seems that the EPA has imposed many changes in paint products that have affected their useability and MicroScale Micro Flat is one product that was negatively affected. The reviews I read were mainly on scale modelers forums. I don't need it to be perfect, but I don't want a yellow finish on my engine nor a Finish that never hardens. It is easy to find negative reviews on virtually any product so I don't know how much weight to put on the reviews. I may still take your advice and try the Micro Flat. I am also considering just apply a coat of Flat Black over the existing finish. Do you think that will work to reduce the shine, or should I just try the Micro Flat? If I mess up the model with the Micro Flat, will the standard paint removers work to remove the Micro Flat and the paint? Thanks Again... Earl
AZ-Flyer,
Thank you for the reply.
I did a google search on MicroScale Micro Flat and I found mixed reviews on the product. The complaints were a yellowing of the finish and a failure to harden. It seems that the EPA has imposed many changes in paint products that have affected their useability and MicroScale Micro Flat is one product that was negatively affected. The reviews I read were mainly on scale modelers forums. I don't need it to be perfect, but I don't want a yellow finish on my engine nor a Finish that never hardens. It is easy to find negative reviews on virtually any product so I don't know how much weight to put on the reviews. I may still take your advice and try the Micro Flat.
I am also considering just apply a coat of Flat Black over the existing finish. Do you think that will work to reduce the shine, or should I just try the Micro Flat?
If I mess up the model with the Micro Flat, will the standard paint removers work to remove the Micro Flat and the paint?
Thanks Again...
Earl
Earl,
I had no problems with the "yellowing of the finish". I was very pleased with my results.
I have not installed any decals for 60 years on any toy models. I was twelve years old back then. I have used air brushes before and became really good at it doing prosthetic legs and arms. This was my first try at restoration of model trains with new paint and decals. Also went with can motors and Dallee reverse units.
If it was me, I would try and air brush a small area where least noticeable with Micro flat.
I also read some of these forums, but it come down to the type of paint you use. I have run into this before. It is alway best to check spot (mask-off) an area first before doing the whole project! Good Luck!
AZ-Flyer
This is the Rio Grande 4-6-4 did a restoration on: http://az-flyer.blogspot.com/p/restoration-projects-steam.html
“Tell me and I’ll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I’ll understand.”
AZ-Flyer@American Flyer Cabinet-top Layout (5'x16'): http://az-flyer.blogspot.com/
You might want to airbrush your shell with Micro Flat to bring it back to that flat black look you so much more enjoyed! That is what I did..........................AZ-Flyer
After I repainted my diesel shell with flat black paint. I sprayed (air brushed) the areas where the decals will be applied with Micro Gloss. I used Micro set to float the decal to the desired location. Then I used Micro Sol to set the decals over any irregular surface and make them more permanent. After letting the shell dry for 48 hours. I over spayed (air brushed) the entire shell with Micro Flat. This returned the shell back to its flat black look and eliminated any film from showing thru on the decals.
MD&RGW-1 GP7/9 wht/Blk/Yellow "Bumble Bee Scheme"
You will find more pictures at: http://az-flyer.blogspot.com/p/restoration-projects-diesel-locomotives.html
dougdagrump Wonder how a Powder Coat would look/work ? And what would it cost ?
Wonder how a Powder Coat would look/work ? And what would it cost ?
It would look great and hold up well, except... Most paint coatings are <1 mil thick. Powder coating is generally 2 mils or more. I took a prewar loco into a local powder coater today to ask him what he thought. His verdict was that some of the detail would probably get lost, buried beneath the finish. Mind you, this guy does mainly industrial work, his guys use big guns, and they don't (won't?) dial the guns down for smaller jobs. He said you could expect a finish 1-3 mils thick. You'd probably be happy with 1 mil, maybe not so much with 3. If you found a more detail oriented shop, they might be able to accommodate you with a lighter coat.
He also mentioned that precise masking is difficult. This means that you should plan on removing all trim, included any trim which is riveted or peened on.
As for cost: this shop has a minimum of $75. My entire job of ~15 small parts (the reason I really went in there) plus two old locos (shells, frames, steamchests, boiler fronts, etc.) could be done for that $75.
BTW, one of these loco's is a 258 with a repaired frame, dented shell, etc. I may go for it any way just to find out. I'll report back if I do.
Earl,...just give it a little time...your letting emotion get in.....I have a number of 2035s I have repainted, and when they are first done, you say you miss the chips, etc, but if the piant job turns out nice, after they sit a while, it is like having a new 2035 without the chips, and the paint looks really good. Yes the parts cost money, but I think you will be happy when it is done.
I painted the engine and it came out really nice. I had sanded out some flaws on the top of the boiler that I believe were a result of Lionel's manufacturing process and they are no longer visible.
However, I am a little disappointed in the results. The Satin paint appears way too glossy. I am hoping the glossiness will fade over time. If it doesn't fade soon, I may re-strip the engine and use a flat black instead. I used 3 coats of paint and I think that was too much paint. It didn't hide the detail, but it just looks too thick for a postwar Lionel.
The other thing that surprised me is I miss the paint chipping that is prevalent on postwar equipment.
I said this was a learning experience and it was. The engine was a basket case when I bought it so I didn't harm the engine. The engine was also missing the boiler front, leading and trailing trucks, and almost all of the side rods along with most of the small pieces (brushes, screws, smoke lever and piston etc.). It will be quite expensive (approx $100) to make the engine complete. I will look for a more complete engine when I attempt another restoration.
I did not include a picture because the engine is missing so many parts.
DDG - I think that a powder coat would result in a coat of paint that would be too thick and could possibly hide some of the cast in details. Sure would be durable though.
It's already been said that stripping the old paint first is best, and I can definitely confirm that from experience. When I repainted my American Flyer 556 Royal Blue, I originally left the old paint on. It looked alright after my first try repainting, but the edges and chipped spots from the old paint could be seen very easily. Only after completely stripping the paint did I get a perfectly smooth finish.
I like to use lacquer thinner in a metal pan when stripping the paint off metal parts (remove all plastic, or it will be destroyed!). Some paints are stronger than others and take longer, but the thinner can loosen and even dissolve nearly every old train paint I've thrown at it, and it doesn't damage the metal at all. I made a short video showing how to do it with a Lionel passenger car, if you're interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1y58lkHk0
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EIS2Is it OK to apply the finish coat directly to the bare metal or should I use some sort of undercoat? My current plan is to apply three coats of the finish paint separated by 2-3 days of drying between coats.
Yes, you want a primer of some sort. If you read the instructions for the paint, it often says something like "Recoat within 24 hours or after 7 days" -- so check the directions.
Three light coats is fine. More light coats is preferable to fewer heavy coats.
EIS2I am using Valspar Satin Black in a spray can that I purchased from Lowes. I know that the Satin paint will not be an exact match for the postwar paint, but I prefer my engines to have a little bit of gloss like the modern steamers have. I spray my current postwar engines with Pledge furniture polish to achieve the satin effect.
Satin black is good. It's what all the cool people use.
You might want to watch out for Pledge, though. It contains silicone, which can do nasty things to a painted surface (fisheyes, adhesion problems, etc.). You do not want *any* of it anywhere near an in-progress project.
I gotta thank you for starting this thread. I'm starting on a 2026 that I'm planning on repainting and upgrading with electronics. And my first question was...how am I gonna strip this?
Thanks Earl and everyone who replied. I'll be starting on it soon and the information gathered here is invaluable!
Rich
I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.I am the venom in your skin --- Breaking Benjamin
Thank all of you for your replies. This is my first restoration project that includes a complete strip and repaint. I am using this as a learning experience and I have learned a lot already. When the project is finished, I will post all of the things I have learned and pictures (unless it is a complete mess).
The status of the project is the engine has been completely stripped and washed in a warm soapy water. The engine was dried with my air compressor, but I am letting it air dry for a couple of days to make sure it is completely dry.
Is it OK to apply the finish coat directly to the bare metal or should I use some sort of undercoat? My current plan is to apply three coats of the finish paint separated by 2-3 days of drying between coats.
I am using Valspar Satin Black in a spray can that I purchased from Lowes. I know that the Satin paint will not be an exact match for the postwar paint, but I prefer my engines to have a little bit of gloss like the modern steamers have. I spray my current postwar engines with Pledge furniture polish to achieve the satin effect.
I would concur that you'll get much better results if the old finish is stripped. The problem with physical removal (bead blast, Dremel, etc.) is that is can also remove remove some of the detail from the piece itself. On the pre-war pieces I work on, Jasco stripper does a bang-up job. It's almost literally a wipe on, wipe off proposition.
The larger problem is finding decent paint that's tough and durable enough to stand up to the handling and bumps that any operating gear will go through. Most of the readily accessible options (Krylon, Rustoleum, etc.) don't seem to be very robust at all, as they scratch easily (far more easily than the original paint). Sadly, I didn't have much better luck with the enamels from Charles Wood. If you've got a spray rig, can find a color that suits,and don't mind buying a lot more paint than you need, you might try auto paint. Along that line, you might also have a go at some of the auto touch-up products (e.g. DupliColor).
trainrat ......... Worth noting here is try not to paint if humidity is above 60%. Otherwise paint can "blush" or take too long to dry. Roger
......... Worth noting here is try not to paint if humidity is above 60%. Otherwise paint can "blush" or take too long to dry.
Roger
Roger.......isn't that what the oven in the kitchen is for? Drying our train paint projects? Seriously, at the rate Earl is going I'll bet his 2035 will come out looking better than new, better than the factory paint job.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
I recently switched to bead blasting them. What a difference that makes! I have tried many different strippers. The best one I found for metal is a stripper in a spray can called "Jasco" that I found at Lowes. But if you can find someone with a glass beader do that. You could paint over the old paint if its clean enough, but you would never get a smooth enough finish if there was lots of chips like most old post war have. Worth noting here is try not to paint if humidity is above 60%. Otherwise paint can "blush" or take too long to dry.
Thank you for all of your replies. I went to my local Lowes store and they did not have any of the products you recommended. I bought a product called CitriStrip which is a gel. I followed the products directions. I painted the gel on the loco shell and placed the loco in a metal pan. I then placed the pan plus engine in a seal-able plastic bag and let it set for 3 hours. I didn't know exactly how long to leave the engine because they caution not to let the gel dry out.
I removed the engine from the bag and started removing the paint with a brass wire parts cleaning brush. That did not work very well because the paint and gel were quickly clogging up the brush and the entire mess was beginning to harden again. So I got out my pressure washer and used that to strip the paint. It worked very well and 95% of the paint was easily removed.
I decided to dry the engine with my air compressor and apply a second coat of paint remover to remove the remaining paint. Surprisingly, almost all of the remaining paint came off with my air compressor. I have no idea why some of the paint stayed on with my 1800 psi water spray and then came off with my 80 psi air blast, but it did.
I re-coated the engine with the gel and I am going to let it set overnight to try to get the remaining paint off.
The pressure washer and the air compressor really saved this job, because it was becoming quite a mess with the wire brush. Has anyone else used a pressure washer and the air compressor to remove paint? Is there any downside to using this method?
Thanks...
I use my Dremel tool with a carbon steel wire brush. Strips paint, polishes steel.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
I have to agree with Jim about using "Castrol Super Clean" to strip the loco. I have done a few shells with fantastic results. Use the Super Clean full strength in a container that you can submerse your shell into. I use a Plastic Spackle holder (the type you use to take spackle from when mudding a wall), which is just big enough to hold the loco. Let it sit for a few hours, or better yet, overnight. All the paint is loosened and use an old toothbrush to scrub all the recesses. When you are satisfied with the strip, rinse in water to remove the residue from the Super Clean. I would follow that with a rinse of ISOPROPYL Alcohol, to remove any leftover residue, and spray with Krylon spray.
Good Luck,
Teledoc (Jerry)
I have seen issues where stripper hid in nooks and crannies, and you had issues with adherence later, but that's a small chance.
Glass-bead blast gives you a "tooth" on the metal to hold your new paint nothing else can do.
I would never do any kind of chemical strip where glass bead is an option, and I've been doing it for 50 years or so.
I've done restorations both ways, and the extra work of stripping the old paint always gives a much nicer end result. If you're uneasy with chemicals, soak the shell in undiluted Super Clean or Simple Green. They are strong detergents that will strip paint from metal and plastic, and they safe to work with unlike conventional paint strippers.
I've stripped a number of things using oven cleaner, it works very well. I paint them up with it, then put them into a plastic freezer bag overnight. I put that bag in a pan, just in case it leaks, but it never has. I then scrub off the paint.
I agree with the above comment about filing the flaws off after stripping, might as well have as nice a surface as you can for repainting.
I think you'll be sorry if you don't strip the old paint.
What is recommended to fill the voids? I was thinking Liquid Steel.
Your new paint may lift the old...or craze...or fisheye....take it all off.
On die-cast, I go to the local machine shop (automotive) and either use their bead blaster or let them do it. Maybe if they charge ya ten bucks, or you bring them back a six-pack, it's cheap.
File parting lines and flash afterwards. Fill voids. It will be well worth the effort.
Dave
I am restoring a 2035 steam engine. I have seen many threads on what to use for stripping paint. Is it necessary to strip the old paint prior to painting the engine? I want the engine to look as good as my talents can make it, but I really do not see any benefit from stripping the old paint and I don't want to work with chemicals if I can avoid it.
<see 3/20/12 post below for progress report>
<see 3/30/12 post below for results report>
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