It was the roller.... got a replacement from Williams and installed it this morning ... the FM runs with no issues over the UCS and switches.
EriediamondFor what it's worth and if I read the problem correctly, that engines (plural) slow down when passing over this section of track, but only the Williams engine having the problem being tried to solve. Now since it was stated the track was dirty, I tend to think the real problem is the track. the rails corroded or dirty inside where the pins go and not making good contact. Try providing power to the rails with alligator clips like your using to power the engine directly from the transformer clipped to the end of this section. See if there is a voltage difference with power from the clips compared to power from the adjoining sections of track.
For what it's worth and if I read the problem correctly, that engines (plural) slow down when passing over this section of track, but only the Williams engine having the problem being tried to solve. Now since it was stated the track was dirty, I tend to think the real problem is the track. the rails corroded or dirty inside where the pins go and not making good contact. Try providing power to the rails with alligator clips like your using to power the engine directly from the transformer clipped to the end of this section. See if there is a voltage difference with power from the clips compared to power from the adjoining sections of track.
I understand the bad roller problem, however why do the other engines slow when passing over this section of track as stated in the original post?
I'm not sure that it's the stuck roller .... I've swapped them so many time I can't tell however the bad roller turns freely. I looked at the pin and with my skills I'll probably destroy the roller trying to disassemble. I'll call Bachman and see if they can' stick one in the mail. Will revisit this thread when I get the new roller pick-up installed. For now the Jersey Central FM sits quietly on a siding. Thanks to all for your suggestions and guidance.
Kader/Bachmann does Williams now, so shouldn't be too big a problem.
This is the roller that was stuck, right? Good chance you've got high resistance crud inside the roller pivot area. If you can get the pin out, you could clean it, or use some contact cleaner and a power wire brush.....hold the roller against the brush and spin it while occasionally removing and spraying cleaner in the pivot area.....even weasel juice would work.
I've got boxes and bags of pickup rollers......got them from a former 3-railer who went 2-rail 25 years ago, then started buying Williams, MTH, whatever he could that was "scale" and making them 2-rail.
I've changed Lionel rollers by un-curling the riveted end of the pin, even re-using the pin.
Dave
As I have suspected all along, I have a bad roller assembly. I ran the loco with one roller switching it from one truck to another. The loco ran in both directions with the good roller and stalled over the UCS track and manual switch track as it should. Ran it with the bad roller and got either intermittent or no power with either truck .. it didn't matter. Checked the bad roller for continuity and there are dead spots on the roller. I don't know of any way to repair the roller assembly ... btw ... continuity through the roller frame is perfect but the roller itself is the problem. If this can't be fixed, where do I find Williams parts??? I hear that this can be a problem. Are parts covered under the Williams warranty??
You should replace the wire to the front pickup roller to eliminate it as the problem. Since you swapped out the rollers with no change in performance, the only other thing left is the wire, or a bad ground on the front truck. Change the wire first, then you can move on to something else if the problem is not solved.
Larry
Okay, I mis-read it then. Running other end forward, same pickup stalls, right? Then wire or actual pickup.
Seen corrosion on some locos or melted plastic insulator.....melt ran between two parts (which originally were loose), pickup and mount pad, thereby insulating it when pressure was on roller (base rocked).
Only Williams I owned was a long time ago....an FM, very early, with some hairball trucks that in no way looked like FM sideframes. Off it went to the trade-in lot shortly thereafter.
I ran other engines over the track with no problem. At a very slow speed the FM stalls. Same slow speed a WILLIAMS F3 passed over the track smoothly with no power interruption. I think it's the pick-up assembly on the front truck .... it passes over the UCS but the train stalls when the rear truck is on the dead spot on the UCS. BTW.... same thing happens on the frog of a manual switch track. Has to be the pick-up ... stay tuned.
Damaged is not what you're looking for. Loose connections or corrosion between tabs and bridge. Hence the soldering suggestion.
Like old Japanese friction cars, bending tabs can only be done so may times.
I'll check the track .... but would the uncouple function work if the bridge were damaged??
If a wire is broken, once you remove the wire, pull firmly on both ends. If it does a "rubber-band" bit, the wire is broken inside the insulation. Replace with SuperFlex.
Also, if as stated just above this post all engines slow at this section.....and it's a UCS or RCS section, remove the section, look at the bridge jumpers underneath.....used to have a lot of issues with those back when I used tubular sectional track. I used to solder the tabs to the bridge pieces to solve....or at least a wire from the tab to the bridge. I can simply be the weight and current of the locomotive breaking power, and if the engine does the same thing in both directions (long hood and short hood forward) with the same lead or trail roller, isn't the wires, it's most likely the track section.
You can add jumpers out and monitor voltage carefully as you cross, but if wire replacement is difficult, maybe just get a new RCS or UCS section for a test.
It appears to be an issue with the truck since swapping the pick-up rollers didn't affect the performance one way or another. Not being as familiar as I'd like with the inner workings of the things, how do I check the ground on the rear truck?? Also, why would the truck perform properly when I tested it off the track??
Check for continuity through each roller and its wire going to the circuit board. The wires may look good, but in fact be bad. Try swapping the wires and see if the problem follows the wire, or just replace the wire on the suspect truck. The wire may have a bad solder joint at the board, or may be broken inside the insulation where you can't see it. At this point, visual inspection probably will not find the problem, and you need to start using a volt/ohmmeter to find out where you are losing power. Unsolder both roller pickup wires from the board, power up the loco, and check for power at each wire. Roll the loco by hand and watch for any variation in power. Solder one wire back, and test the loco for proper operation. Unsolder it, and solder the other wire back. Test again, and you should find where the problem is. Also, with the power OFF, check for continuity from the loco frame to each wheel on both trucks. A bad or non-existent ground on one truck can cause the same problem you are having.
I tested the roller this morning and the continuity seemed erratic. Removed both rollers and inspected ... they look good. Decided to switch the roller position and found no difference. Turned the loco around long hood leading and the only difference was that the horn cut out on the lead truck rather than the following truck. I checked all the wiring and it looks good ... fresh and new as one would expect from a 1 year old piece. I'm stumped!
Did not get an opportunity last evening to test the roller but will over the weekend. As far as the track is concerned, I'm using traditional O 3 rail and don't believe the outside rail is insulated but I'll check that as well. Stay tuned.
If everything checks out, and the rear truck still does not supply power, just for fun, connect both outside rails together with your jumper. Could be one rail is not grounded, and if your loco has traction tires, and the rail opposite the traction tires is not grounded, then your loco will be dead. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read that Lionel FasTrack only has one grounded rail.
Good suggestions .... last evening I took the loco and turned it upside down. With about 8-12 V to the tracks, I took 2 wires with alligator clips and attached center rail to roller housing bracket (not the roller) and outside rail and touched it to the wheels. The result was that both trucks have power and sequenced f-n-r as it should. Is it possible that the connection from the roller to the housing bracket could be a problem? I'll put power to the roller itself tonight and see what happens. Otherwise I can't think of any other way to test it other that checking the wires as was suggested.
Just for fun, turn the loco around and see if it is still not getting power through the roller at the (now) back of the loco. If it gets power, then definitely the other roller is bad. If you have an ohmmeter, then you can check for continuity from each roller to the board. You may have a broken wire, or a bad solder joint. Make sure the rollers themselves are clean and touching the rail.
could be a lot of things most obvious to look for but may not be that easy to see is lose solder or break in the wire from the roller to the board. check solder at board and roller. wiggle wire to see if it moves more than should at solder joints ( wiggle lightly as don't want to cause another problem) there could be a break int he wire that you don't see could put engine in neutral with cover off and put meter to it where it connects to the board to see if your getting power to the board.
I agree I would think if the front loses power the rear should still be supplying power to the engine
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There are a few issues as I discovered. First, the lead roller was stuck and worn a bit even though the loco is only a year old .... fixed that with a drop of oil. As I move the engine over the track by hand with power on, the lights go out when the roller is on the non metallic part of the track coil. That is consistent with Larry's assumption BUT something must be wrong with the other roller on the rear of the train. Any thoughts on why the power is not coming through the rear roller??
Larry and Philly your responses make sense. I don't want to alter the wheel configuration so I think I'll take the track apart and see if that helps.
You may be getting a slight voltage drop in the uncoupler track. With a meter, test lamp, or a lighted car, check for a voltage drop in the track. Could be the steel connecting pins are corroded, or the inside of the track where the pins go in is corroded or dirty.
Taking a guess as to why the locomotive may lose its sounds when running slow over the track, may be because the pickup rollers lose contact for a fraction of a second going across the coil, which may cause the sound board to drop out. Presumably the locomotive has 2 pickup rollers, so this should not happen. Check to make sure both pickups on the loco are clean and transmitting power, and that the wheels are clean also. If the loco has traction tires, that may be a contributing factor also.
I believe the problem is with the track .... what can can it be?? The uncouple function works???
I'm having some performance issues with engines passing over the Lionel O uncoupler track. The engines seem to slow a bit while passing over the track. Additionally, I have a Williams FM that looses the horn and bell sound while passing over the track at a slow speed .... the horn and bell generally works when passing over the track at higher speeds however this engine is powerful and running at more than 12 V it's going too fast. The track was pretty dirty so I cleaned it last evening but no improvement. Any ide what might be going on here??
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