Likes to jump the track at the switches.

[KRM]

I have a Lionel Dockside USS # 76 that will just jump off of the track at times going over Lionel 042 remote turnouts. It just drives off the track to the side a little?

It may go around 5 or 6 times fine then will just drive off. I have had to replace the front steps twice because it will bend then so the last time I left them off thinking that may be the problem but it still does it.

Any Ideas as to why?
Thanks,
Kev

[EIS2]

Push or drive the engine through the switch very slowly while observing how the engine derails.  The usual cause of derailments is improper wheel or track spacing.  I have found that many times the wheels are spaced too narrowly and one wheel will drop off the top of the rail and fall between the rails.  Then the opposite wheel will be forced up the rail and derail. 

Another possibility is that the point on the movable rail is too wide and the wheel flange will ride up the point and derail.  Filing a sharper bevel on the point will cure that problem.

Good Luck...

Earl

[KRM]

Thanks Earl,

 I forgot to say the track is 027. It seems like the spring on the roller is too strong and just lifting it off the rails when it croses the switch??

 Tks,

 Kev

[EIS2]

Kev,

I think you need to look further for the cause.  I doubt if the roller spring is too strong.  You can verify that the spring is not too strong by sitting the engine on a flat table and see if it lifts the engine off any of the wheels.  You might also have a warped switch.  Put a flat surface, like a hardcover book, on the switch to see if it is flat.

I think you will discover the problem by slowly driving or pushing the engine through the switch and see where it starts to derail.  Have you done that yet?

Good Luck...

Earl

[jwse30]

I don't know about the 42" switches, but I have had Lionel  o27 switches that the movable black rails worked loose at the pivot. When that happened, they would shift. The outer rail would push down slightly, and the other side would rise slightly. In my case, the result was a short but I wasn't running a docksider. 

If you have a lot of  vertical play there, that could be the problem. If it is and you figure out a fix for it, I would love to hear it. My solution was to replace them with Kline switches, but that's not a good option anymore.

 

Hope this helps,

 

J White

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

I've found certain locomotives have a small travel on the center track pickups and any projection, say a switch frog or the magnet on a UCS/RCS track, will tend to bottom them out.  On a switch, this usually throws them off the track.  This happened to me a lot with an O-27 layout and switches, which is why that layout got retired and all the track/switches were disposed of.

[KRM]

Thanks Guys,

I have tried what Earl suggests but you can’t push a dockside the wheels will not roll so I could not be sure. It does not seem to care what switch. It will do it on any of them going in the right direction and speed.

It is looking as if it is as John describes. Short pickup travel issue I will keep looking.

Tks,

Kev

[jwse30]

Another thing I thought of was to ask if it derails when it is just the engine or only when it has a train in tow. Both of my docksiders have too strong springs to center the coupler and will occasionally cause a derailment with certain cars directly behind the engine. I don't recall if it is the engine or the car that hops the rails though. It's been a while since they got much run time. 

 

Just another thing you may want to look at,

 

J White

 

[KRM]

It don't seem to care. with or without cars. It seems to be more like John said. Later today I will try to run it again and see. I was thinking it was the springs too. What ever it is I can't change track for just one engine.

 I have way too much track down to change now.

 Tks,

 Kev

[EIS2]

The only way you are ever going to determine the cause of the derailments is to observe the derailment close-up with your own eyes.  Even though the wheels do not turn when you push the loco, you can still see exactly where the engine derails if you can get it to derail by slowly pushing it through the switch (with the wheels skidding) multiple times.  That may show a wheel falling between the rails, roller problems traveling through the switch, the wheels climbing a point, or a problem with the switch itself. 

You can also use transformer power to drive the loco through the switch slowly, even though the normal running speed of that loco is fairly fast.  You can usually still get a loco to crawl  very slowly.  If you have a remote, you can use that to control the train from the switch.  If not, have someone else drive the loco through the switch while you observe the loco for derailments at the switch.

I have had numerous problems with derailments before I converted my layout to FasTrack.  All of the derailment problems were diagnosed using the method above.

Good Luck...

Earl

[KRM]

Earl,

Thanks for your persistence on this. Per your instructions I have found the problem on the offending switch. After close observation and many derailments I discovered that the point was miss aligned too far inward hitting the lead inside wheel and driving it off of the switch to the outside of the switch. After an adjustment it now travel over the switch without problem in open or closed position in either direction.

See attached picture.

Thanks,

Kev.

 

 

[lionelsoni]

That's the frog.  The points are to the left, out of the picture.

[KRM]

lionelsoni

That's the frog.  The points are to the left, out of the picture.

 Bob,

 So I stand corrected once again. This Frog comes to a point and look at all of the switches out there and how they look.  call it what you want. That is why I posted the picture so everyone could get my point on what I was calling the piont. Get the point??? I did look at the 2011 Nov issue of CTT page # 36 but they did not show this switch, so I did not get the point of what the point I was looking at was called. 

 Tks,

 Kev.