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Lionel "Little Joe" Electric

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emk
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Lionel "Little Joe" Electric
Posted by emk on Sunday, March 4, 2012 5:56 AM

Can anyone tell me bout this train?  How it runs, history, etc.

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Posted by Seayakbill on Sunday, March 4, 2012 7:16 AM

Which era are you interested in. I have the Milwaukee from the MPC era and it is a very good looker but very poor in the pulling power. About 5 or 6 of the Milwaukee baby madisons is about it.

Bill T.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Sunday, March 4, 2012 8:35 AM

Some history HERE.

Rob

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Posted by DMUinCT on Sunday, March 4, 2012 9:25 AM

History of the prototype locomotive goes back to 1955 when the New Haven Railroad took delivery of 10 new GE rectifier type Electric Passenger Locomotives.  Called "EP5" (Electric Passenger 5th version), rated at 4,000hp and riding on 6 wheel (Alco) trucks they entered New Haven to New York service.  They could run on 11,000 volt AC overhead wire or 600 volt DC third rail.   The cooling blowers made such a winding sound that they were nicknamed "The Jets".   Biggest problem, no M.U. connections, they could not be double headed and under PennCentral ownership all were scraped.

Lionel quickly followed with a model in 1956, the #2350 in New Haven EP5 paint.   A very good outline of the EP5 but for some reason (maybe time to production, maybe cost) it road on 4 wheel (EMD)  power trucks borrowed from the F3 Diesels.   Good runners with single motor and "Magne-Traction".   It must have been a success, in 1957 Lionel produced them in Milwaukee Road paint as 2351, followed as 2352 in Pennsylvania colors,  and in1959 in Great Northern paint as 2358.  All were railroads that had electric operations, non of which had the EP5 type.  Lionel has "re-run" the engines several times.

MTH, Williams, and K-Line all made models of the EP5 woth the proper 6 wheel trucks.  I have had, at one time, all three.   I am a collector, not an operator, but as far as detail to the prototype, the K-Line has it hands down. 

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by arkady on Sunday, March 4, 2012 10:08 AM

I have an MPC-era PRR EP-5.  It runs fine, and although I've never been one to run enormous trains, it always pulled all the cars I put behind it -- up to the limit of the traction tires.

IMO, Lionel should have put the same sideframes that it used on its Alcos on this locomotive.  It still wouldn't be prototypical, of course, but it would have at least looked closer to the real thing, for minimum cost.

The only drawback for me on this locomotive is the traction tires, which I hate with a burning passion.  If Lionel-MPC had put MagneTraction in it, I'd recommend it without reservation.

And, as others have noted, only the New Haven actually had EP-5s. And the real Milwaukee "Little Joe" electric was a very different beast.

 

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Sunday, March 4, 2012 11:16 AM

The MPC models with traction tires pull as well as or better than MagneTraction models.  The MagneTraction versions are smoother, though, due to the sintered iron wheels... the cast wheels of the MPC locos combined with the tires makes them hop & wobble under load.

Some of the most powerful engines Lionel ever made were the twin-motored F3's with traction tires - like the 8851 New Haven.

Rob

emk
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Posted by emk on Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:32 PM

I bought the 1975 Lionel at an auction.  I always liked this train.

emk
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Posted by emk on Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:33 PM

Thanks Rob

emk
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Posted by emk on Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:34 PM

Great insights... its clear that this Lionel I bought is an EP-5, not the original Little Joe.

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Posted by sir james I on Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:28 PM

Run the loco with the motor to the rear, you will get better result that way. In fact that's good advice for all Lionel single motored diesels.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

  Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC)   - Detroit3railers-  Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS

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Posted by Seayakbill on Monday, March 12, 2012 6:22 AM

Yep, they do run better in reverse

Bill T.

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Monday, March 12, 2012 8:24 AM

I have the K-Line Milwaukee Road version with dual DC motors and TMCC/RailSounds.  I added the ERR Cruise Commander and it's a very good runner.  I've pulled 25 boxcars around with it, and it didn't even break a sweat.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, March 12, 2012 9:04 AM

I hate it when my locomotives sweat...;-)

Bob Nelson

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:14 AM

Sometimes it's right before they catch fire. Laugh

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Posted by steinmike on Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:03 PM

The prototype EP-5's had a nasty tendency to catch fire.  Each engine had twelve "Ignitron" rectifiers (large metal cylinders filled with mercury) to convert 11,000 VAC to 600 VDC for the traction motors.  The rectifiers generated a great deal of heat and the EP-5's suffered from electrical fires.  According to Classic Power #9, EP-5 Jets (N.J. International, 1991), by 1967 three of the ten were burned beyond repair despite being overhauled in 1962/3.  Not the best effort from the guys at GE.

PennCentral 4971 (former New Haven EP-5 371), caught fire in the tunnel under Park Avenue in Manhattan shortly after departing Grand Central Terminal in 1973 and the remaining units were banned by the MTA from operating into NYGCT.  All were scrapped in the mid-70's.

The Lionel EP-5 does not remotely resemble a "Little Joe" which had a 2-D-D-2 wheel arrangement, but other than the trucks does resemble the real EP-5.  I have two - one of which was a basket case that I restored and had a single Williams fly-wheel can motor, reverse unit, and "True-Blast II" sound unit installed.  With the single Williams fly-wheel motor the EP-5 easily pulls six to seven "Baby Madison" passenger cars (and could probably pull more, just don't have the room on my layout).

Williams also makes an EP-5 (with right three-axle trucks) and dual can motors which looks a bit close to the prototype than the Lionel EP-5.

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Posted by steinmike on Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:19 PM

And here's a shot of the repainted and re-motored EP-5 - in PRR Brunswick Green with Microscale Decals.

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