022 controllers sell for less than $10 on eBay, so I don't put them into the "collector" category just yet. Yes, I do have a lot of experience selling.
Do either of you fellows have a lot of experience selling?
Diode or jumpered, having the bar cut would detract from a sale. I personally don't care, I made my modifications long ago (over twenty five years), and always picked the best controllers I had on hand.
I don't think that 022 switch controllers are ever going to be collector's items.
cwburfle Soldering a wire across the gap certainly eliminates the diode, but the bar is still cut.
Soldering a wire across the gap certainly eliminates the diode, but the bar is still cut.
Well, I don't think they're collector's items yet, so I'm not sure that's a big deal.
BTW, adding the diodes makes the lamp life virtually infinite. Bob Nelson and I discussed this in my long post on 022 switches: 022/711 switch operating pblms.
CW, the mod is in my long post on restoring 022 switches. I have modified my controllers in the same way you did. It dims the bulbs somewhat which I like as they were way too bright before. You can easily reverse the mod by soldering a wire across the cut.
I mention the 022 controller modification from time to time. So far, no one has responded with an indication that they've made a similar modification. I think most folks are loath to make an irreverseable modification of this sort.
Using the standard lamps (1445 or 1447 in the lantern, 432 in the controller), the controller's lamp draws much more current than the lantern's lamp, 250 milliamperes versus 150. So it's still necessary to alternate diode polarity in both places.
Bob Nelson
Whichever way I pick the diode up, that is the way it goes in. Close to random.
Good point on the diodes. Maybe do all the switches one way and all the controls the other way, easier to keep it straight.
For those who go the diode route, which is a very practical one, take care to alternate the directions of the diodes, so that about half the lamps draw current on the positive half-cycles and half on the negative. This is easier on the transformer and especially desirable when lamps make up most or all of a transformer's load.
Well, the mistake here is while the bulb is a resistive load, it's a load that varies in resistance according to voltage. The hotter the bulb burns, the higher the resistance will be.
I still think the best way to deal with hot light bulbs is to put a diode in series with them.
All my 022 switches and switch controllers are modified to put a diode in series with the lamps. On the 022 switches, it was just a matter of disconnecting the lamp wire, and soldering a diode in series right inside the swtich motor. For the controllers, I used a Dremel cut-off wheel to seperate the contact bar on the bottom of the controller into two segments, seperating the lever from the bulb sockets. and soldered a diode across the gap. This also required relocation of the wire to the lever side. A side effect is that the lights flicker when a train passes over (I like this).
I made these modifications a long time ago, well before LED's were common (perhaps they did not even exist), and before these 2445 and 2447 bulbs were offered.
I can certainly appreciate why people would use LED's. If I ever exhaust my supply of bulbs, I will consider them.
I still think the best way to deal with hot light bulbs is to put a diode in series with them. The diodes are a lot cheaper than LEDs, and they keep the 18 volt bulbs cool when running on 20 volts. They eliminate the problem of the lanterns melting.
They're not there. That's why I looked at the Autolumination site. Without specifications, we can't say what a particular lamp will do. But the inconsistencies within each of the Autolumination specs gave me no confidence. The differences between them bothered me because the difference in lifetime suggests that the "2447" is running at a much higher filament temperature than the "2445", yet there's only a modest difference in efficacy.
You're welcome. You may have use for these rules of thumb: Current varies as the .55 power of voltage, light output as the 3.5 power, and lifetime as the -12 power.
I forgot to thank Bob for the explanation as to why ohm's law is not the correct formula to use. I am always ready to learn.
So: Thank you
But I am skeptical about the specifications, which do not agree on power and current for each lamp and are quite different between the two lamps, in current, candlepower, and especially in lifetime.
Were the specifications on the Town and Country site? I didn't see them there. Regardless, why the expectation that the two bulbs would have the same specifications?
Incandescent lamps are resistive, but only in the short term. The resistance increases greatly with temperature; but, over the 8 milliseconds between the pulses of power from the 60-hertz source voltage, neither the temperature nor the resistance changes much at all. But, over times greater than a second, the current variation is much less than proportionate to the voltage. So Ohm's law does not apply.
The current actually varies by about the .55 power of voltage. So, if these lamps do draw 150 milliamperes at 24 volts, they draw about 113 milliamperes at 16 volts, or 1.63 watts, somewhat less than a 53 and more than a 52.
But I am skeptical about the specifications, which do not agree on power and current for each lamp and are quite different between the two lamps, in current, candlepower, and especially in lifetime. Furthermore, the part numbers look like they were made up with the intent to suggest these lamps as 24-volt replacements for the 1445 and 1447, by including the "24" in the number, the sort of significant numbering that I have never seen in the GE catalog. An internet search turned up this very different lamp: http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/nw012104/2445.htm
According to ohms law, which is probabaly OK because a lamp is more or less a resistive load, those 2445 and 2447 bulbs are going to draw about 90 milliamps at 14.4 volts, 1.3 watts. That is using the figures Bob found, which were 150 milliamps at 24 volts.
The fellow who introduced these bulbs to the Toy Train world worked for the GE bulb division, and knows a wealth of information about bulbs. He does not have a web site.
A particular lamp rated at 24 volts draws less current at 16 volts than it would at 24 volts. (In fact, any incandescent lamp draws less current at a lower voltage than it does at a higher voltage. Reducing the voltage from 24 volts to 16 volts reduces the power consumption of any incandescent lamp by 47 percent.) But that does not mean that that particular 24-volt-rated lamp draws less current at 16 volts than any other lamp operated at 16 volts, whatever its rating.
The 1445 is a good example of this. It has a dual rating of 150 milliamperes at 18 volts and 135 milliamperes at 14.4 volts. Because of that 18-volt rating, many assume that it must use less power than 14-volt lamps. But it draws more current at either voltage (or at any voltage) than the 53, which is rated at 120 milliamperes at 14.4 volts. That is why the number 53 is a better choice than the 1445 for reducing power consumption, and therefore heat production, is the objective. The number 52 is even cooler than the 53, for those with screw sockets.
lionelsoni A higher voltage rating does not imply that a lamp runs cooler. The Autolumination specifications are contradictory: They rate their "2447" at 24 volts, 150 milliamperes, which is 3.6 watts and their "2445" at 24 volts, 135 milliamperes, which is 3.24 watts; yet they say each lamp consumes 3 watts. I recommend the number-52 (screw) or 53 (bayonet) as cooler alternatives to the 1447 and 1445.
A higher voltage rating does not imply that a lamp runs cooler.
The Autolumination specifications are contradictory: They rate their "2447" at 24 volts, 150 milliamperes, which is 3.6 watts and their "2445" at 24 volts, 135 milliamperes, which is 3.24 watts; yet they say each lamp consumes 3 watts.
I recommend the number-52 (screw) or 53 (bayonet) as cooler alternatives to the 1447 and 1445.
My gosh! What a great bunch of replies! I think I will look at the LED light bulbs as I just ordered some new covers for the ones that were melted a bit on the switches.
I had this Lionel 225E given to me with a 2040w-50 tender. I cleaned them both up as far as armatures and such, and now they work great. The track and switches were rusty and still need tender loving care. The bases on the switches are bayonet. I also got three O42 switches that look just like the O22. I hope the same bulbs work on them.
I have an HO train set that My granddaughter found in the attic a few years ago and I set it back up in my shop for her to play with. I thought I had spent enough money on that set, then a guy gave me this O scale prewar Lionel. Now the fun really begins.
Thanks to all the replies and help. I will be sure to pick your brains for more information as I will need it.
If you do a search on eBay for "Lionel LED bulb" you'll find a whole assortment of bulbs that can be used for the 022--I just did this with our club's post-war layout. You can pare down the search by adding "white" to your search, too. Of course, some of our 022s use the screw-in bulb, and some use the bayonet bulb, so I had to order a pack of both. But they do work, the hoods fit over top of them, and they eliminate the hood-melting heat problem. They all come on the slow boat from China and work out to about $1 a piece. Well worth it for the decreased wattage used from the transformer and longevity. The switch motors even work better because they have more wattage available to them with the lower watt LEDs in place, and the transformer runs cooler. Good luck!
The Autolumination specifications are contradictory: They rate their "2447" at 24 volts, 150 milliamperes, which is 3.6 watts and their "2445" at 24 volts, 135 milliamperes, which is 3.24 watts; yet they say each lamp consumes 3 watts. I can't find the 2445 and 2447 part numbers in any of my GE catalog nor any other reference. I would not trust their specifications.
You might consider "self-contained" direct-replacement LED lamps (bulbs). Although a tad spendy, they completely eliminate the heat problem, are very rugged and should last for years.
here you go i use this site for all my bulbs for lionel mth williams stuff check it out.
www.autolumination.com/trainbulbs.htm
022 swtiches made prior to 1950 use screw base bulbs.
022 switches made between 1950 and 1969 use bayonette based bulbs.
I am not certain what has been used in the modern era. I have seen modern era switches with screw based sockets. I don't know that they were used consistently.
The standard screw base bulb is a #1447, but the bulbs can get fairly hot, and melt the covers. Some dealers sell #2447, which is a higher voltage bulb, and should not get as hot.
The standard bayonett base bulb is a #1445. Once again these bulbs will sometimes melt the covers. Some dealers sell #2445, a higher voltage bulb that should not get as hot.
This fellow sells bulbs both individually and in bulk. look under "light bulbs group a"
http://stores.towncountryhobbies.com/StoreFront.bok
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