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Smoke Unit coil elements

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KRM
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Smoke Unit coil elements
Posted by KRM on Saturday, February 4, 2012 4:54 PM

Okay so I tore into the dockside smoke issue today and as I thought the element inside the smoke unit is cooked….again. Well the whole unit is like $15.00 but I am wondering if I could just get the coil element that is inside the unit. Then I could get a few of them and just replace them every time it burns up. Is there anyplace out there that sells just the coil elements? Possibly a better element than Lionel uses in their dockside smoke units?

Just a thought??

Thanks,

Kev.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by TrainLarry on Saturday, February 4, 2012 5:43 PM

Kev,

  If this is like your loco, the Lionel parts listing for the Docksiders lists a smoke resistor for $4.20, but not sure if it is the element itself, or an external resistor.

Larry

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:23 PM

Thanks Larry,

 You may be on to something. I saw it too but like you thought it was an external resistor but I don't see something like it anywhere on the engine? But I have not removed anything but the smoke unit.

When I did a test, the power going into the smoke unit is true track power.  Only problem is the picture does not look like what I have that is burnt up. It very well may be the part I want but I am just not sure.

Good suggestion

Thanks,

 Kev

 

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, February 4, 2012 7:03 PM

Hey Larry I sent you a PM. Resistors do get hot, Right?

Tks,

 Kev

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, February 4, 2012 7:35 PM

Larry,

That seems to be the part I am looking for. Brasseur has it listed as Smoke element  not smoke resistor. #8613-55

http://www.traindoctor.com/service/lionel/8500to8800.asp

So what would be something that could do the same, but take the 20 volts of power put out by a ZW

http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/43JR20/43JR20-ND/2019982

Hey Bob Nelson, Can you help I am not an elect guy.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by TrainLarry on Saturday, February 4, 2012 8:07 PM

 Kev, got your PM. Yes resistors can get hot if their wattage rating is approached or exceeded. One thing must be understood, though. Even though an electrical device may be rated at a certain wattage, it may not necessarily dissipate that wattage. Another thing to understand is even though your ZW may put out say 225 watts or so, the smoke resistor is only going to 'use' 3 watts of it, because that is all it is designed to use. Increasing the voltage/current through the resistor may make it 'use' more wattage, and get hotter, and eventually burn out. The smoke resistors are used at or near their maximum wattage dissipation because we want them to get hot. Usually resistors are installed with a much higher wattage rating than is expected in normal service to keep them from burning out, and will operate cool to the touch.

 You can use any transformer you want. As long as you do not exceed the wattage rating of the resistor, it will not burn out. Exceed it with any transformer, and have a spare on hand.

Note the exact part is here.

Hope this helps.

Larry

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, February 4, 2012 8:46 PM

Larry,

Sorry,

I guess looking back I should be saying volts not watts of output into the resistor, CW-80 = 15,  ZW=20 how does this effect the life of the resistor and burn out? So how do the volts effect the resistor? Still trying to find something better than OEM. I know what it will do. Sad

 Thanks,

 kev.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by TrainLarry on Saturday, February 4, 2012 10:25 PM

   If you operated the ZW transformer at maximum voltage (about 20 volts) the combined voltage and current (called wattage) dissipated by the resistor may be at or slightly above its design limit, therefore shortening its life. Operate the ZW at 18 volts, like the CW-80, and you will extend the life of the resistor.

The same resistance value and in a 3.25 watt version is here.  It should get just as hot as the 3 watt unit at the same operating voltage. If it does work, then this may be the answer for an upgrade. The slightly higher wattage rating may be enough to extend its lifespan.

Larry

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Sunday, February 5, 2012 8:28 AM

Thanks Larry sounds like it is worth a try.

 Kev.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 1:46 PM

TrainLarry

    The same resistance value and in a 3.25 watt version is here.  It should get just as hot as the 3 watt unit at the same operating voltage. If it does work, then this may be the answer for an upgrade. The slightly higher wattage rating may be enough to extend its lifespan.

 

Larry,

I got the 3.25-watt resistor today from Mouser and have installed it into the dockside smoke unit. It is slightly larger in diameter than the 3-watt but the same length I got both so I could do a comparison.

I added extra fiberglass packing and laid some fiberglass wire insulator over the top of the resistor to act as a wick.

It seems to be working very well. Guess all I can do now is see how long it takes to burn up.  Confused

Thanks for the help. Yes

Kev.

 

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by RRaddict on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 4:48 PM

Where did you get your fiberglass packing and fiberglass insulator?

Thanks,

Kevin

Can't stop working on the railroad!

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 5:27 PM

Kevin,

 From just above my head in the basement. Residential fiberglass insulation.

I cut open some  fiberglass wire insulator to wrap the element.

Kev.  

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by TrainLarry on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 5:31 PM

Glad it works, Kev. Keep us posted on your success with this issue.

Larry

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:07 PM

TrainLarry

Glad it works, Kev. Keep us posted on your success with this issue.

Larry

Will do Larry,

 Thanks again!   Smile

 Kev.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Thursday, February 9, 2012 9:02 AM

I found that pink insulation charred too quickly, so I use Tiki torch wick for my smoke units.

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Thursday, February 9, 2012 9:14 AM

John,

 Where do you get the Tiki wick? Any hardware store?

Tks,

 Kev

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by RRaddict on Thursday, February 9, 2012 9:19 AM

Kev you can get it at Walmart or home depot but my question is do you put this wick around the resistor?

Kevin

Can't stop working on the railroad!

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Thursday, February 9, 2012 9:43 AM

Kevin,

 I would think so because you want to keep the resistor wet if you can.

The factory has a fiberglass sleve around the resistor but they burn up if you run it low on fluid. I would like to find some of that stuff. Just looks to be fiderglass wire wrap of some sort.

 Kev.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by gunrunnerjohn on Thursday, February 9, 2012 7:54 PM

You pack the smoke unit just like you would with the manufacturer's fiberglass wick.  You have to cut the outside binder off the Tiki wick, then use the inside fibers.  Make sure you leave the air hole from the fan or chuff piston open.  Also make sure the wick is firmly in contact with, but not totally surrounding the heating element.

 

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